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Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#141

Post by srtjstjsj »

magicsmoke wrote: post #41
aaaxyz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last decade : - Russia annexed Crimea; - Turkey took control of most of the Syrian land across its borders; - Israel continuously colonised bits of Palestinian land; - China is now taking political control of Hong Kong; - UAE forces tool over the Socotra Islands; The West's reactions so far have been ranging from ineffectual economic sanctions to completely ignoring it. I would expect similar "annexations" by…

Because none of those annexations haven't affected "core" territories of the west or their "core" population. The west definitely did not ignore 9/11. Some people are more "western" than others. More specifically, the ones that can vote to mobilize the "western" military. Spill their blood and get demolished. Spill the blood of their worshipers and suddenly their own blood is too valuable to waste.

9/11 was an used as an excuse for pre-planned actions again unrelated entities. The US made huge efforts to avoid responding to the actual attackers for almost a decade.

Iraq was not a threat to the "core".

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#142

Post by tingol »

baybal2 wrote: post #33
AYBABTME wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which?

1. US Philippines Defence Treaty, USA allegedly refused to honor it when Philippines demanded USA assist clearing Mischief Reef, multiple times, and under multiple administrations. 2. Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security Between the United States and Japan, refused to acknowledge Chinese hostility against Japanese controlled island. 3. Mutual Defense Treaty Between the United States and the Republic of Korea, Ko…

What Russian coup in Montenegro?

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#143

Post by deburo »

roughly wrote: post #105
baybal2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to say that defence treaties, are a bit special in the context of USA. Why USA has historically entered into so many treaties? They reason is is because USA's constitutional arrangement makes it really hard for the US government to declare a war... on the paper. So, by giving a treaty, USA was giving the strongest assurance that by turning a treaty into its own law, it prevents the chance of anybody in the con…

That’s an important point. From a political standpoint, one of the purposes of the defense treaties has been to discourage allies from building up their own militaries. This was an explicit policy in the wake of WW2 to promote both US hegemony, but also to promote stability - the theory being a world with one dominant military power is less likely to see large wars like WW1 and WW2.

Is this true? I keep reading that the US is putting increasing pressure on allies not spending at least 2% of GDP in their military.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#144

Post by srtjstjsj »

peruvian wrote: post #126
oxymoran wrote: post #5

The rest of the world needs to wake up and realize that China is not messing around. There will be a long list of Hong Kong’s if we continue to look the other way to authoritarian regimes.

Capital isn't going to let the US or Europe against China until it is entirely unavoidable (e.g. China invades say, Japan or Korea).

Why would China do that? It doesn't make money for them.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#145

Post by haunter »

dqpb wrote: post #132

> It's like watching a patient with cancer finally die Or perhaps it’s like police officers bearing down their weight on a man’s chest and neck, forcing all the oxygen out of his lungs and holding them empty for six minutes so the whole world can witness the life slowly drain from his eyes. Authorities around the world are highly effective at snuffing out human life and freedom.

I'm starting to hate how every thread slowly ends up being about the US instead of the actual topic. HN avoided this for the long time but slowly crawling up here too. Reddit already past this, there is no post in almost any front page default sub without mentioning Trump

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#146

Post by xoxoy »

magicsmoke wrote: post #109
xoxoy wrote: post #100

I suspect we will see China attempt to invade Taiwan sooner rather than later now. In particular I’ve suspected for awhile that China desperately wants to “own” Taiwan Semiconductor ($TSM) since they’ve been trying to build up their own domestic chip business for awhile and $TSM is the gold standard in chip manufacturing.

Any invasion of Taiwan will just leave TSMC a smoking husk, either from PLA jets or from self-destruct switches. Invading won't help in terms of owning TSMC's facilities and technology.

huh? by invade i mean they want to own Taiwan, not destroy it.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#147

Post by srtjstjsj »

kingkawn wrote: post #15
abellerose wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money & power are greater than protesting/democracy is what people are waking up to. It's been that way since forever but a lot of dogma keeps people docile to the idea that change is made from the "people" instead of a few elect individuals by birth with circumstances of wealth and power.

If the broad population decides you’re done; you’re done. Doesn’t matter what wealth or power you think you’ve got.

Which is why authoritarian regimes control what the broad population decide, thinks, and sees.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#148

Post by Der_Einzige »

spectramax wrote: post #65
powersnail wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an easy decision to make, when nuclear weapon exists. And that "somewhere else" --- wherever that is --- is someone's home. Please don't say it as if it's a duel in the wilderness.

I think war can still go on between nuclear armed nations - Tradional naval war happens in a localized region whereas the nuke option with current ICBMs is a complete and utter destruction of the country. Imagine 200 ICMBs landing in the US or China. So, I think this would be the last resort and not the first. Nuclear deterrance works when one party is actually suicidal and weak (North Korea), because if they smell b…

Nope, there will be no great power wars while MAD still exists (and it does between china and the US).

At best, you will get some kind of military skirmish before they decide to pull out the nukes. There will likely be threats of nuclear exchange which lead to a cease fire. If there is no cease fire, than God help us all.

But no, two nuclear armed states are not going to fight a large scale conventional war. Partly this is because the US would spank China in a conventional war.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#149

Post by srtjstjsj »

xoxoy wrote: post #100

I suspect we will see China attempt to invade Taiwan sooner rather than later now. In particular I’ve suspected for awhile that China desperately wants to “own” Taiwan Semiconductor ($TSM) since they’ve been trying to build up their own domestic chip business for awhile and $TSM is the gold standard in chip manufacturing.

China is already paying most TSMC employees to move to China already. TSMC won't last 10years at its current strength.

Re: Hong Kong mourns the end of its way of life

#150

Post by legulere »

hnarn wrote: post #54
canada_dry wrote: post #6

What has happened to Hong Kong is a strong canary-in-the-coal-mine indicator for other Chinese territorial disputes [i]. With Hong Kong it was somewhat inevitable but I can't help but imagine how different it would be if the US and EU/Britain (as leads) would have strongly denounced their approach. I suspect in a decade from now the West will be lamenting how Hong Kong was the right opportunity to stifle China's ambi…

The best predictor for future behavior is past behavior: China is testing the waters, in some cases in a quite literal sense (South China Sea), and you're correct that how the world reacts to Hong Kong and the Xinjiang "re-education camps" will be seen as a vital piece of information in the future when deciding on how to proceed with other "problematic" regions: for example Taiwan, which in the case where strong-armi…

Capitalism is not incompatible with dictatorships. Pinochet is a common example, but also Nazi Germany had a working state capitalism, like China.
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