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Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

mobile.reuters.com

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Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#141

Post by ogre_codes »

asutekku wrote: post #113
ogre_codes wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally every service the previous poster mentioned has an ad free/ tracking free alternative which ships with the iPhone. Aside from that, there are too many " free products " without advertising to list them so you'd need to be more specific.

They are not free, if you need to buy a phone to use them.

> They are not free, if you need to buy a phone to use them.

If you don't have an iPhone/ iPad/ Mac, how else would Apple's privacy/ tracking policies apply to you?

We're talking about advertising and apps on iOS, those apps are absolutely free (and ad free) on any devices under discussion here. Otherwise, please feel free to ask about any other specific app on any other platform, because in almost all cases there is a free solution without advertising.

The idea that the world needs to run on advertising is nonsense. Likewise that developers/ end users somehow "need" advertising.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#142

Post by shajznnckfke »

lilyball wrote: post #137
librish wrote: post #7

One thing that removes a lot of credibility from Apple's "for the good of the user" communication on this is that they broke out the personalization for their own ad network as an option, put it in a different location, and made it opt-out instead of opt-in. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-a...

It looks like Apple's advertising targeting isn't using the same info that they're trying to withhold from third parties though. I actually have it off on my device so I can't see what the "View Ad Targeting Information" says (if I turn it back on, it says I have to wait 24 hours before it has the info to show me), but from the description it does show, it sounds like the ad target uses "account information and inter…

Facebook’s big ad business on mobile is advertising to install apps. That’s also Apple’s ad business on mobile (ads shown on Apple News, and in the App Store itself). For Facebook to show attribution of ad conversions, they must do tracking “across apps” (from their app where the ad was clicked, to the advertiser’s app). For Apple to do the same attribution, they can call it “interactions with Apple services”, because the purchase is done through the App Store. In that sense, both are going after the same user actions but different language can be used to describe them.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#143

Post by chillacy »

Yizahi wrote: post #140

What will really happen - apps won't work without accepting tracking. So technically users will be given a choice, and in practice there will be none. Just like now - "Oh, you don't want to give us your contacts, sms, location and all photos? Fine, here is an app with every function disabled. You want to actually use the app? Give us permissions."

Even so, it's still better at the end of the day if users are at least aware that they are paying for their services with their data.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#144

Post by Tarq0n »

Yizahi wrote: post #140

What will really happen - apps won't work without accepting tracking. So technically users will be given a choice, and in practice there will be none. Just like now - "Oh, you don't want to give us your contacts, sms, location and all photos? Fine, here is an app with every function disabled. You want to actually use the app? Give us permissions."

GDPR has some protections against degrading functionality, assuming they ever start enforcing it.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#146

Post by kmlx »

slipheen wrote: post #130
jeffasinger wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I (sort of) work in the advertising industry. I'm really excited to see this change, but the major players in the industry just weren't ready for it, and it would have been very chaotic with lots of money on the line. I think waiting until early 2021 is better than having anything that depends on ad revenue see a huge dropoff until the industry figures things out.

I hope the entire advertising targeting business goes bankrupt, and anything that depends on it goes with it. Any computer I own (including a phone) is supposed to represent its users interests; It is not supposed to be some compromise between betraying their trust and making money for ad networks. (Personally, I already have limit tracking enabled. And I use custom DNS filtering, and a bunch of other BS. But my frie…

> I hope the entire advertising targeting business goes bankrupt, and anything that depends on it goes with it.

HN has become a rant fest whenever ad tech gets mentioned.

but this does fit the "minuscule but very vocal minority" trend of our times.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#147

Post by [deleted] »

librish wrote: post #7

One thing that removes a lot of credibility from Apple's "for the good of the user" communication on this is that they broke out the personalization for their own ad network as an option, put it in a different location, and made it opt-out instead of opt-in. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/08/07/apple-a...

[deleted]

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#148

Post by shajznnckfke »

aleppe7766 wrote: post #125
GekkePrutser wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like this might also be the reason for this delay. If Apple is indeed favouring their own ad services they might indeed be the target of very well funded antitrust-based legal campaigns. I assume the adtech companies would have at least threatened them with this. So they are probably going to retune their own ad service to comply with the same before they go live with this change.

Apple’s own ad service is long gone and won’t come back (if some sanity is still left in Apple’s board). They’re just playing nice with some core partners.

Apple has an ad service: https://searchads.apple.com/

Ads to install apps, shown in App Store and News apps.

App install ads are also Facebook’s main mobile ad market. This crackdown specifically block’s Facebook’s ability to show attribution of app purchases for their ads, while preserving that ability for Apple by default.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#149

Post by judge2020 »

shajznnckfke wrote: post #148
aleppe7766 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple’s own ad service is long gone and won’t come back (if some sanity is still left in Apple’s board). They’re just playing nice with some core partners.

Apple has an ad service: https://searchads.apple.com/ Ads to install apps, shown in App Store and News apps. App install ads are also Facebook’s main mobile ad market. This crackdown specifically block’s Facebook’s ability to show attribution of app purchases for their ads, while preserving that ability for Apple by default.

> while preserving that ability for Apple by default.

I think you mean by design. Ads above search results can be tracked because they're shown within the App Store, so they don't require looking at "who is this user" from within the downloaded app, they can just differentiate based on where it was placed, like Google Ads. The only case I can see here is "why does apple get to be the only ones with ads on search results" but then you're arguing the same point you'd use against Google, so it all comes down to what the potential Google antitrust lawsuit says and if the DOJ cares about this enough to later file suit against Apple.

Re: Apple to delay privacy change threatening Facebook, mobile ad market

#150

Post by crakhamster01 »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #121
mmacvicarprett wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more complicated than that. There is a whole industry that depends on tracking IDFA to function, it is not about being creepy, something simple as knowing if your marketing campaign is effective becomes very hard. On one side we have hoarders of data like Facebook and Google, on another side there are legitimate use cases like app publishers measuring marketing performance. SKAdNetwork was poorly designed, it d…

> There is a whole industry that depends on tracking IDFA to function And hopefully that will become "was" at some point. > it is not about being creepy The ad industry is a poor judge of what's creepy; their interests are not aligned with user interests. > A 3 month period will allow all actors in the advertising industry to integrate and come up with solutions that protect the user's privacy. The advertising indust…

> hopefully that will become "was" at some point

> their interests are not aligned with user interests

How do you propose apps monetize going forward? The vast majority of users do not want to pay for the apps/utilities on their phones, but still appreciate the value these apps provide them nonetheless. Targeted advertising enables apps to provide these services to users for free by having marketing budgets front the cost. The removal of IDFA really only cripples the little guy, and speeds up the consolidation of wealth among Apple, Amazon, Google, and FB.

I'm curious what revenue model you would suggest for apps that wish to remain free, if not advertising-based?

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