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Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

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Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#141

Post by jonathanstrange »

jjcon wrote: post #118
gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some features in software I rarely use. But those times I do use them they are utterly essential. If I find such feature has been removed I am incensed. Usefulness is NOT the same as usage.

> Usefulness is NOT the same as usage. Metrics can tell that story though so you’re arguing a straw man. Example: If you see that 99% of users have never used a function ever - you have a pretty good idea that it needs to be reworked or removed. You may also see a function that is used by 80% of users once a month, that you may opt to keep.

I'm not sure. While I understand that developer time needs to be cut down or restrained sometimes - though perhaps not at Amazon in this case, which concerns their core business -, your example could merely turn out to be a way of losing 1% of the users. Usage statistics alone cannot tell you whether your users hate or like a feature. Some features are always going to be used more than others.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#142

Post by danShumway »

jjcon wrote: post #102
neiman wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I would have known that by buying Kindle I end up working for Amazon, I indeed wouldn't have bought one. It's deception. Please put on the box a big warning, "THIS DEVICE COLLECTS YOUR DATA", similar to those on cigarette boxes.

It’s called the terms of service?

Are they printed on the box in a readable form before the customer buys the product?

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#143

Post by unionpivo »

BEEdwards wrote: post #87
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #21

I have quite often seen people here and on other tech forums assume that purchasing a Kindle means being locked into Amazon's ecosystem, giving up personal details, and having the risk that your books might be deleted. But you don't have to use the Kindle's internet connectivity: I have owned three generations of Kindle, and with each one I activated airplane mode the second I unboxed the device and I never turned ai…

Why buy a kindle at all then? Any cheap budget tablet can read ebooks and stay off the internet.

For people who read a lot, it makes sense to purchase device that is optimized for reading.

E-ink gives you Better screen for text, a lot better battery life, no apps, no notifications, no video ads, o ads in general, nothing flashy.

And kindles are relatively cheap, and available almost everywhere.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#144

Post by agentultra »

badRNG wrote: post #13

I'm sure someone like me always has the same "hot take" in every thread regarding this, but I honestly still love reading physical books. After spending a day weary of interacting with screens all day, there is something nice about tapping in to this activity that humans have done for hundreds of years. Sure, e-ink is easier on the eyes, but isolating myself with a good book can be a near spiritual experience.

I do too but I also don't like to lug around the latest 10k page high fantasy epic I'm reading on a plane.

I think there's room for both.

I use my Kindle for reading my pop-fiction and stuff I like to read on the go or in bed.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#145

Post by kofejnik »

thdrdt wrote: post #131
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't really matter does it? You don't collect data without consent, period. Why is that so hard to understand? Why don't developers ever push back against this sort of thing? Collectively we build this stuff, we are not 'soldiers following orders' which makes us responsible for what we create. The current actual use is not relevant. Consent and the possible uses are relevant.

I think your comment is unfair. Every webserver logs the IP address and the URL visited. Do you think most people know this? Do deverlopers push against this?

strawman; you visit someone else’s server, and therefore they get data about your visit; with kindle, you’re using your own device and there’s no expectation that amazon will be snooping

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#146

Post by danShumway »

jjcon wrote: post #111
hohohn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how every company rationalizes the mass collection of user data. "Oh lets collect many terabytes of every user-action in case we need to one day discontinue a feature". It's a book. You don't need to collect and track every fucking action I do to find out if your stupid highlighter is being used in Poland.

Whether you like it or not this collection does lead to better products - that is why you think every company does it because those that don’t usually die out. Understanding your users is vitally important. Privacy LARPers are a tiny segment of the market, the average person doesn’t really care if their ‘usage of the highlighter function is tracked’

> Privacy LARPers

This is an unnecessarily denigrating term at this point in the conversation. It's not LARPing to want to be able to read a book or take notes without being tracked.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#147

Post by criddell »

falcolas wrote: post #124
neiman wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you do lost of those things by sending encrypted data to Amazon, and getting back the encrypted data from them? They act as a storage in most cases, not as a server, no?

You'd have to figure out some kind of secure key sharing mechanism between phones, tablets, web browsers, and e-readers. Or, you can trust that a position in a book (bookmarks, notes, etc.) is not sensitive information that really needs to be encrypted. This is my - perhaps overly pragmatic - position.

I think the books you read and your annotations should definitely be protected. Imagine reading about Tienanmen Square in China.

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#148

Post by dade_ »

torgian wrote: post #20

I’m not surprised, but I suggest the Kobo e-reader to the OP. Can use multiple formats, easy to upload books to it, and some models have expandable memory. You can completely disconnect it from the internet if you want.

There is also alternative open source firmware available for Kobo devices: https://github.com/koreader/koreader

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#149

Post by kofejnik »

filesystem wrote: post #92
belorn wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this practice ever get wide spread I would guess that the developers will limit airplane mode in someway in order to ensure that the device will call home at some point. But it is a pretty clever hack to get a hostile machine to not connect to the internet as airplane mode is (I assume) regulated behavior.

Even if the developers take the egregious step of nerfing airplane mode, you can still "opt out" by not giving the device credentials for your WiFi network.

Only until you come into range of any open WiFi which is every public place everywhere

Re: Kindle collects a surprisingly large amount of data

#150

Post by falcolas »

BCharlie wrote: post #127
falcolas wrote: post #109

This statement - "None of these requests appear to be used for customer features like last read location." - bugs me, because it's fairly obviously false, and detracts from the real concerns. To sync a "last read page" across devices, you need to send a location back to Amazon. It's also appropriate to tie a location to a device, so you can pick the appropriate device to sync your position from. And, when you highlig…

I mention that the data that appears to be used for those purposes is sent again in a separate request to a separate end point, so we have two types of requests: last read location, and reading analytics. Sorry it wasn't clear, I'll try to improve the wording.

Will you also be updating and noting that the requests to Wikipedia and Bing are for explicit customer-benefiting features?

Might be worth noting that you can opt out of their data collection (on the e-reader, at a minimum) as well. Settings > Device Options > Advanced Options > Privacy or in the device management console in your account on amazon.com

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