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Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

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Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#141

Post by slavik81 »

somehnguy wrote: post #91
abawany wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME, they've really hobbled the functionality of independent repair shops, making it necessary to supplicate to the Apple Store. I was trying to get the battery replaced in a 2015 MBP and the independent shops were 'required' to keep my machine for about 7 days since they had to first 'diagnose' that the battery was dying, order it, wait for it to arrive, and then replace it. In contrast, one could make an appointmen…

You could have also done it yourself in about 15 minutes. I've done my 2015 MBP twice now, it's not hard at all. I'm not sure why people in tech bother paying inflated prices for easy repairs. Just because you work with software doesn't mean you have to be afraid to turn a screwdriver ;)

The iFixit guide for battery replacement on the mid-2015 MBP [1] is a 74 step process involving the use of a nasty chemical solvent to remove the glue that holds the battery. You must have found some enormous shortcuts to have replaced your battery in 15 minutes!

I'm quite comfortable opening most electronics, but my MBP is one of the few I would hire a professional to handle.

[1]: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Retina+Disp...

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#142

Post by munk-a »

stephenr wrote: post #133
harry8 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nonono. This is not the right place for that restriction at all. You should have the right to install backdoor tools on a technical level. If you install backdoor tools on equipment without permission from the owner or a properly executed warrant that is the crime and what must be prevented. Don't conflate restraining the FBI with being allowed to treat the device you paid for and own exactly as a device you paid for…

Right because everyone knows that rootkits and other malware are just a hypothetical issue - no one ever deploys them against unsuspecting victims because that would be against the law.

Illegal actions - especially by the government - must be punished. Otherwise our laws are just a polite suggestion. I agree that it's problematic to conflate Right-to-repair with technical issues that are supposed to be solved by the legal system.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#143

Post by munk-a »

creato wrote: post #116
sushshshsh wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a real believer in right to repair. But I wonder, if we are unable to achieve legislative results, what can be done to build hardware on open standards?

It just isn't something most people buying electronics care about, and there are real tradeoffs with size, weight, and aesthetic design choices. Combine those factors, and it's easy to see why the economics don't work. Making your device easily serviceable makes it more attractive to a tiny segment of the market, while making it less attractive to a much bigger segment.

I disagree that making your device easily serviceable necessarily makes it less attractive to that portion of the population. I think that making your device brittle, fragile and easy to tamper with makes it less attractive to that portion of the population - having open documentation about the ways to approach repair and then letting the electronics repair shops all be able to repair your device makes it really attractive to pretty much all of the population.

If your ease of repair comes at the cost of quality people will complain about the lack of quality - but nobody specifically wants something that can only be repaired by one market entrant that has full control over the price of repairs.

Also, if you really want to emphasize quality you can run a repair certification program that distributes high priced stickers to aide in people's confidence.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#144

Post by pmontra »

volkl48 wrote: post #131
encom wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple is so worried about people using crappy Chinese parts, they could sell original spare parts themselves, like proper hardware vendors do. PS: Don't post AMP links, they cause cancer. De-AMP'ed link follows: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/iphone-5-owner-ma-a...

Eh...they don't really. Dell doesn't sell most parts to the public. HP and Lenovo theoretically do, but you've got probably 50%+ odds of the part you want either being perpetually unavailable/OOS or priced insanely if you try to buy direct.

I don't know about Dell but I put several original and not original parts inside my HP laptop and they worked well. HP's next business day service came to my home twice to replace the screen and the keyboard. I replaced the keyboard myself after the 3 years service period expired. I never bought from HP, just googled the part number and picked one of the results. Anyway I think HP sells through partners here.

I increased RAM twice, one rightaafter unboxing the laptop because buying an 8 GB laptop plus 16 GB from a third party was some hundreds Euros cheaper than buying a 16 GB laptop from HP. I bought two SSDs in different years and replaced the spinning disk and the DVD. I can't see myself having to depend from a single company for such things, and some of them being outright impossible.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#145

Post by pmontra »

MurMan wrote: post #101
wonnage wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you buy the device why the hell should Apple prevent someone from putting a counterfeit battery/screen/whatever inside of it? Sure, people might be defrauding AppleCare, but that's their problem - there's no reasonable justification for why they should be able to regulate who fixes their devices.

Most efficient answer to "why the hell should Apple prevent someone from ...": Control.

If control cost them money they would let control go. The answer is money.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#146

Post by pmontra »

robin_reala wrote: post #30
tankenmate wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if the grandparent was getting to this, but sharing your client information with a 3rd party in the EU and/or for EU citizens is problematic w.r.t GDPR. You'd have to disclose to your client that you are sharing their data, why you are sharing, and get their informed consent.

Consent is only one legal basis, but it’d be hard to argue that sharing their data for processing by Apple is legitimate interest, and the other non-consent bases don’t apply here.

Why Apple should know that a random Joe replaced the touchscreen of his iPhone? I don't see any reason. HP doesn't know I replaced my keyboard three months ago and the keyboard works.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#147

Post by LockAndLol »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #70

Just for some perspective, I can call up my Dell small business sales rep (who reached out to me after I bought just three or four machines over a period of some years) and give him an obscure part number. He says he needs a minute to look up the part, etc and asks if I’m taking this to a Dell-authorized technician; I say no. He takes advantage of how long it takes for the likely instantaneous result to pop up on the…

Apple really doesn't like the environment, does it? You're forced to get a new device every time.

God for business, shit for the world. But Apple customers don't seem to care one bit.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#148

Post by zaarn »

somehnguy wrote: post #90
chromedev wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple fans seem okay with this and also not being able to install apps outside the app store.

What gives you that idea? When my Macbook battery ballooned up on me I just replaced it myself. It's not hard at all and can be done in 15 minutes, I have no idea why people in tech take their machines to repair places to do it.

There is plenty of people who lack the skill or ability to do fine repairs. Especially with batteries, if you have no idea what you're doing, it can easily lead to insurances not paying in case you do get injured or damage something.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#149

Post by notimetorelax »

p1necone wrote: post #134
ComputerGuru wrote: post #70

Just for some perspective, I can call up my Dell small business sales rep (who reached out to me after I bought just three or four machines over a period of some years) and give him an obscure part number. He says he needs a minute to look up the part, etc and asks if I’m taking this to a Dell-authorized technician; I say no. He takes advantage of how long it takes for the likely instantaneous result to pop up on the…

This is the difference between actual professional equipment, and "pro" aspirational marketing for consumer devices.

I don’t know, I guess you can have different definition of PRO. Yours is more about a fleet of devices that’s easy to maintain for a corporation or a school.

Re: Apple expands independent repair program to Mac after US antitrust investigation

#150

Post by abawany »

unishark wrote: post #132
abawany wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After my futile efforts to get it repaired at the independent shop and the Apple Store (they never came for me even with my appointment and I wasted an hour sitting in that place for no reason), I bought a third party battery and a set of guitar strings to replace it myself. I was successful but the battery was garbage so I had to return it and go back to the original swelled battery to be able to use the laptop albe…

> In contrast, replacing the battery in my HP Elite x360 was a piece of cake - no nasty glue, no proprietary screws, and oem batteries available everywhere. Replacing the battery for my Surface Pro was a different story. The shop told me there's a high probability that removing the screen will break it. Warrant repairs from Microsoft consist of them taking your surface and shipping you a refurbished machine in exchan…

I remember the earlier Surface machines got a pretty bad repairability rating from iFixit but it seems newer models get better ratings. I bought the HP precisely because of its repairability.
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