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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#141

Post by LeifCarrotson »

Jonnax wrote: post #62

I don't understand the comparisons to game consoles. You buy an Xbox or a playstation, and it's a game playing machine. It just plays video games. You buy a mobile phone. And it's a general computing device. It's very much arguable that it's necessary for modern life.

That you expect that the xbox and playstation are not general-purpose computing devices is a massive PR win by Sony and Microsoft, and one that Apple wants to copy. Apple doesn't want you to think of an iPhone as a general-purpose computing device. They would prefer you to think of it as an Apple Store app-running machine, to say that it just plays Apple apps.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#142

Post by pneill »

throwaw4y-plate wrote: post #116
pneill wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users own the hardware, but not the software - they are grante a license to use the software. This is not about the hardware, it's about a single App, the App Store, which the user does not own.

And to which no alternative is permitted.

Correct. And this is not illegal.

Using the store analogy - when you purchase at a store, the store has a markup on the product (usually 40%) - you cannot demand the store take a different markup because a store down the street is selling it for less, you can't set up a sign in the store telling patrons they can get a better deal down the road, and you can't say you want to pay in a particular currency because you don't have any of the local currency in your wallet. The store can establish policies like this for any patron that enters.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#143

Post by josephcsible »

Razengan wrote: post #55
woofie11 wrote: post #2

This clearly and unambiguously crosses the line into abuse of market power. Apple's actions before? Maybe? Sort of? Apple needed that 30 percent cut to monitor for fraud and quality or something, going above-and-beyond other payment processors. This? This has absolutely no basis in anything. It's simple retaliation designed to kneecap Epic from Apple's dominant control of a market. Apple can refuse to let Epic releas…

> Apple needed that 30 percent cut to monitor for fraud and quality or something, going above-and-beyond other payment processors. How much do Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, Steam, Gog and etc. take from publishers on their stores?

That's a misleading question, because on other platforms you can choose to avoid the store. A better question would be "what's the lowest cut you need to give up to distribute to users of these other platforms?". And the answer to that is zero on basically all of them except iOS.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#144

Post by stale2002 »

Razengan wrote: post #63
throwaw4y-plate wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can you be banned from doing business with millions of other people for offending the gatekeeper?

Why should Epic get to enjoy a market that Apple built without giving Apple anything or following the rules of the platform? Should anybody be able to post anything they want on HN or YouTube or Facebook etc.? They can't. Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite without giving Epic any money? They don't.

They should have access to it, because Apple is engaging in anti-competitive practices that are illegal, thats why.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#145

Post by dstaley »

ArchOversight wrote: post #133
dstaley wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just follow the rules in my TOS and block them like I do others who don't follow the TOS I'm fairly sure Apple doesn't terminate the developer account simply for failing an app review. I think this is a specific executive decision based on the fact that Epic is unlikely to rectify the issue, which could be seen as retaliation.

That's what's in the Developer Program License Agreement though: Section 11.2 Termination, subsection (f): > (f) if You engage, or encourage others to engage, in any misleading, fraudulent, improper, unlawful or dishonest act relating to this Agreement, including, but not limited to, misrepresenting the nature of Your submitted Application (e.g., hiding or trying to hide functionality from Apple’s review, falsifying…

Sorry, to clarify, I wasn't trying to imply that what Epic did wasn't against the TOS. My point was that Apple has the authority not to terminate Epic, but has chosen to do so, even when they've allowed other apps that have done things against the TOS to retain their developer account.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#146

Post by throwaw4y-plate »

pneill wrote: post #142
throwaw4y-plate wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to which no alternative is permitted.

Correct. And this is not illegal. Using the store analogy - when you purchase at a store, the store has a markup on the product (usually 40%) - you cannot demand the store take a different markup because a store down the street is selling it for less, you can't set up a sign in the store telling patrons they can get a better deal down the road, and you can't say you want to pay in a particular currency because you do…

I dont get this store analogy. Best Buy can't suppress the existence of Fry's, so I can go do business with Fry's if a bridge with best buy is burnt. Apple suppresses all competition.

And the legality has yet to be determined.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#147

Post by papaf »

fooey wrote: post #39
lokar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the various cuts (both sale, and in-game) for each platform known, either informally or publicly?

Everyone is 30%, always has been Xbox, Playstation, Steam, Google, Apple, they're all 30%.

Everyone is 30%

Not everyone. Epic Games Store is 12%, Humble Store is 5% and itch.io lets the developer choose.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#148

Post by pjc50 »

woofie11 wrote: post #2

This clearly and unambiguously crosses the line into abuse of market power. Apple's actions before? Maybe? Sort of? Apple needed that 30 percent cut to monitor for fraud and quality or something, going above-and-beyond other payment processors. This? This has absolutely no basis in anything. It's simple retaliation designed to kneecap Epic from Apple's dominant control of a market. Apple can refuse to let Epic releas…

The thing is, this starts the taxi meter running; every dollar that Epic would have expected to make will get added to their demand for damages.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#149

Post by Animats »

Note that this applies to Mac systems, not just IOS. Apple is trying to prevent Unreal Engine from working on any Apple-controlled platform.

So, if you're a gamer or a game developer, do not buy a Mac. Developers now using Macs need to be planning an exit strategy.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#150

Post by wdr1 »

0x402DF854 wrote: post #23

From a preliminary statement of Epic's motion: > Just over two weeks ago, Apple’s CEO Tim Cook was asked during a Congressional hearing whether Apple has “ever retaliated against or disadvantaged a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store”. Mr. Cook testified, “We do not retaliate or bully people. It’s strongly against our company culture.”

Epic should have done this a week or two before the hearing.
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