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Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

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Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#141

Post by drawkbox »

Seems to work pretty well for Honda. They innovate and everyone still copies their designs and products, but they also have great financial results magically with innovative products. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0904/112.html [2006]

I hope this is a trend in America, Google can set a great example (as all companies early on do) on keeping innovators in charge with a startup culture/meritocracy.

Before the recent change in CEO, I felt Google was getting too suits focused and simply competing on a byline/reactionary technique. Bring it back Google.

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#142

Post by patio11 »

jdp23 wrote: post #68
GoldenMonkey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has done this all along. Managers are programmers, they divide their time between programming and managing. The feeling within Microsoft, was how can someone who is not a programmer, manage programmers?

And look how well it's worked for them ...

May we all be cursed with Microsoftian levels of failure.

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#143

Post by yuhong »

jacques_chester wrote: post #102
dennisgorelik wrote: post #81

GOOG is 3% down today (while market overall is about the same). I personally like Larry's change, but average investor seems to be skeptical.

The average investor went to the same school as the MBAs whose power may be diminished if this is true. Management ideology includes the idea that a good manager can manage anything; that management is a context-free science that should be left to professionals. If you believe that then you believe that this article says Google will be turning over management to amateurs. Naturally you might be suspicious.

Yea, I know:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2118742

In fact, I know this is only one of the horrible things that MBA courses at least used to teach.

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#144

Post by bluedanieru »

al05 wrote: post #105
sachinag wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hell, Exxon is run by an engineer.

People on HN have this weird distinction where if your an engineer you stay an engineer. In the real world, most career structures involve coming in a engineer and then progressing into management. A lot the skills used for management such as negation skills just come with age anyway.

A lot the skills used for management such as negation skills just come with age anyway.

Well you get older and fear change a bit more, and you tend to say "no" to more things, but that's not really a management skill.

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#145

Post by pdaviesa »

juiceandjuice wrote: post #33
CoffeeDregs wrote: post #4

This is a big story. I'm both an engineer and a manager (to which engineers will say "management!" and managers will say "developer!"), and I haven't seen this pendulum swing back and forth so much as be ripped in half and pulled in opposite directions. Google's obviously got very smart folks in both engineering and management, so it's going to be very interesting to see how this is handled. I can't imagine a Microso…

I think both have their merits, but I think engineers should be the ones building projects/companies, and management should be the ones who run it. I don't think non-technical management should fundamentally be involved in development unless it's a manager who is also an engineer. In a sense, a traditional non-technical manager should be in charge of the monotonous, boring stuff and that only... stuff like QA, ops, m…

The problem with this approach is that engineers are going to build things that other engineers like. Add up all the engineers in the world and it's not that much compared with the rest of the global population. A good comment on the original post stated that what Google really needs is to diversify it's workforce. This is the reason Google fails at social.

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#146

Post by jacques_chester »

yuhong wrote: post #143
jacques_chester wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average investor went to the same school as the MBAs whose power may be diminished if this is true. Management ideology includes the idea that a good manager can manage anything; that management is a context-free science that should be left to professionals. If you believe that then you believe that this article says Google will be turning over management to amateurs. Naturally you might be suspicious.

Yea, I know: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2118742 In fact, I know this is only one of the horrible things that MBA courses at least used to teach.

You have a better memory than I do.

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#148

Post by 6ren »

drawkbox wrote: post #141

Seems to work pretty well for Honda. They innovate and everyone still copies their designs and products, but they also have great financial results magically with innovative products. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/0904/112.html [2006] I hope this is a trend in America, Google can set a great example (as all companies early on do) on keeping innovators in charge with a startup culture/meritocracy. Before the recen…

BTW: I understand that Honda used to be very innovative in disruptive ways, creating entirely new categories of products (e.g. they invented the off-road recreational motorbike) but, like Sony, have instead only made sustaining innovations to existing product categories for the last two or three decades. Are my facts right? (I'm going by Christensen).

[I'm guessing merely sustaining innovations is the very thing Larry Page wants to avoid (and separate business units helps with that, because then they're free to fit themselves to the market need - like a startup).]

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#149

Post by flomo »

jacques_chester wrote: post #134
Elepsis wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why people assume that Microsoft only makes money on Windows and Office. There were 11 separate businesses within Microsoft that brought in a billion dollars or more in revenue last year: http://techflash.com/seattle/2010/07/microsofts_11_billion-d...

I was talking about profit, not revenue. Here's what I'm talking about: http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of-the-day-microsoft-op...

Actually, I don't think you understand Microsoft's business model. "Server and Tools" may only generate a modest profit of only a billion dollars per quarter, but it is the foundation of all those Windows sales. The real core of the company is not the end-user stuff, it's .net, Visual Studio, IIS, and SQL Server.

If you're actually trying to arguing that MSN/Live/Bing has been an endless waste of money, then of course I'd agree.

Re: Larry Page Begins Major Google Reorg: Engineers, Not Managers, In Charge

#150

Post by mfukar »

shin_lao wrote: post #39
CoffeeDregs wrote: post #4

This is a big story. I'm both an engineer and a manager (to which engineers will say "management!" and managers will say "developer!"), and I haven't seen this pendulum swing back and forth so much as be ripped in half and pulled in opposite directions. Google's obviously got very smart folks in both engineering and management, so it's going to be very interesting to see how this is handled. I can't imagine a Microso…

Actually AFAIK Microsoft is organized in business units (Windows, XBox, etc.)

Many companies are organized in this manner. I don't see what the big deal is, personally.
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