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Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

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Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeh sure, made me lots years ago, also cost magnitudes more their life savings. It doesn't sound like OP is looking for gambling.

Not really, as far as four months ago, Bitcoin was at 8k per coin... today it's around 11k per coin, it's about 30ish percent profit. Edit: Unless you bought 11k+ and sold below that point, there's no chance you lost on Bitcoin.

So? You could have dumped money into ANY of the big tech four months ago and been up WAY more than 30%. The S&P500 index alone is up more than 30% since the crash.

Bitcoin peaked at 20k in December of 2017, and dropped to $3100 exactly a year later. Seems like anyone investing at the top, and there were LOTS of inexperienced mom and pops doing so, are down at minimum 50%. Without any type of dividends or stock in a real company.

Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#142
post #128

> I'm not comfortable investing the entirety into an index fund, given the current socio-political climate. Over the the long term there is not really anything better to do with it than equities: the Great Depression, World War 2, gold standard retirement, 1980s inflation, etc. Even if you only invested in the peaks, you'd still do quite well over the decades: * https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-m…

Stock indexes over the long term are a function of Corporate profits of the large companies and the inflationary nature of the economy, especially over the last 30 years, the willingness of the Federal reserve to print money (create debt). Without restraint nowadays. For instance, in 2020, the massive stimulus by the Fed almost certainly will create a rising stock market. It deviates of course in the short term 6-18…

> the willingness of the Federal reserve to print money (create debt). Without restraint nowadays.

Ben Felix, a portfolio manager at PWL Capital in Canada, just released a video explaining why this is completely wrong:

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3lP3BhvnSo

> Quantitative easing is a monetary policy whereby a central bank buys government bonds or other financial assets in order to inject money into the economy to expand economic activity. But what exactly does that mean? In today’s episode, Benjamin and Cameron are going to address this topic, avoiding highly politicized aspects, like whether or not central banks should be involved in the economy in the first place, and focusing purely on the operational perspective of quantitative easing – what is it, how it works, and what the intended transmission mechanisms are.

* https://rationalreminder.ca/podcast/109

> For instance, house flipping or starting a business. You can get better than the 5% or whatever you get after inflation in stocks. If you're really good at what you do, your odds of getting a better return go up.

That's nice if you want a different/second career or something. But there are those of us who are happy with our careers/jobs, and simply want something to do with our retirement savings… ain't nobody got time for that.

Of course the half-life on any new business is quite abysmal, so I'm not crazy/ambitious enough to take on that kind of risk.

Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#143

> I'm not comfortable investing the entirety into an index fund, given the current socio-political climate. Over the the long term there is not really anything better to do with it than equities: the Great Depression, World War 2, gold standard retirement, 1980s inflation, etc. Even if you only invested in the peaks, you'd still do quite well over the decades: * https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-m…

I'm an index fund skeptic. What would happen in a world where everyone invested in index funds? Capital allocation would go haywire. You can't create value out of nothing. ISTM that the more people push on index funds, the more overvalued equities in the index become relative to those outside the index. I'm not sure that retrospective analysis saying index funds are the best applies going forward in a world where ind…

currency != value

Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#144

> I'm not comfortable investing the entirety into an index fund, given the current socio-political climate. Over the the long term there is not really anything better to do with it than equities: the Great Depression, World War 2, gold standard retirement, 1980s inflation, etc. Even if you only invested in the peaks, you'd still do quite well over the decades: * https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-m…

I agree with the (downvoted) guy who said, I'm an index fund skeptic. Something is true with index funds that was less true historically, which is the concentration of a few large companies in the largest indexes - as in, the amount of percentage of capital they have. Fact, FAANG make up 10% of the s&p 500 index, tech makes up 20+ %. It's NOT at all averaged out in the way the Bogleheads might think it is. Is it a "b…

The historic worst case for the inflation-adjusted S&P 500 is not being up from 1929 - 1987 - 58 years. https://www.macrotrends.net/2324/sp-500-historical-chart-dat...

Edit: This ignores dividend reinvestment as ummonk noted. https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1900 suggests 1929 - 1944 was probably the longest time.

We are in unprecedented times. Highest debt, lowest bond yields, crazy P/Es, historic GDP drop (worst since 1929, or since WW2 for some). We don't yet know how inflation/deflation will play out. CPI is useless. A lot "inflation" is going into real estate / land and the stock market.

I don't think past wisdom applies anymore. If you put money into most products (including most index funds) on the stock market today you are in fact stock-picking / gambling.

Also tech companies are partially up for a good reason. Small caps have lost a lot earnings power. https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/128335311697343283... Much much more than tech stocks. E.g. tech stocks were almost the only ones doing any buybacks last quarter. Stay-at-home companies, solid/value companies, and cheap stocks is where hedgefunds seem to move to. But yes, some valuations are bonkers. EV stocks, CVNA, W, ...

Personally, I've been late to the party, and needed to learn on the fly, BUT: I now own a portion of gold and royalty and streaming companies (mining exposure with less risk of badly run mining companies. They lend money to miners in return for metal. I.e. miners don't need to worry about the price of the metal.) Mind that GLD and SLV are not fully backed by gold and silver. There is significant counter-party risk (E.g. if the bank goes bankrupt you might not receive anything). They also haven't really been audited, and JP Morgan employees have been charged for price manipulation of metals.

I reduced my bond exposure, and I will probably soon move into gov bonds exclusively. I don't want to gamble on MBSs, CLOs, corporate bonds being bailed out. (The Fed and ECB's policies skew the bond market. Ratings and yields are (increasingly) not great indicators of company health). There is little room for lower yields. Real yields (bond yield - inflation) will turn negative or are already. When rates eventually will be hiked, both stocks and bonds will fall. (See 2019 / December 2019)

I started stock picking. Mainly value, but really random stuff I find on Youtube investment channels and Reddit (Of course I read up on them, listen to financial calls. Balance sheet. Cash flow. Exposure to potential problems.). I sleep better at night with a cheaper stock that has less downside, even if it isn't riding the current trend/bubble.

Other than that I'd keep a good amount of cash for potential opportunities. In the current climate, stocks could fall any week, real estate will likely be on sale (depending on how many rich people will try scoop it up at the same time), or perhaps you can buy a share in a local business.

Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#146

Just skimming some of the replies here makes me think you will get better advice on the Bogleheads forum [1]. Despite the minimalist appearance it is actually a great place to get sensible financial advice. I would start with the wiki page on managing a windfall [2], then search through older replies to similar questions. This kind of question gets asked there a lot, so there should be some recent threads. [1] https:…

One more to add is Reddit's Personal Finance, where this question gets asked a lot. The wiki (second link, search for Windfall) esp has a number of great articles on topics like this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/

https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/index

Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#147

> I'm not comfortable investing the entirety into an index fund, given the current socio-political climate. Over the the long term there is not really anything better to do with it than equities: the Great Depression, World War 2, gold standard retirement, 1980s inflation, etc. Even if you only invested in the peaks, you'd still do quite well over the decades: * https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-m…

I agree with the (downvoted) guy who said, I'm an index fund skeptic. Something is true with index funds that was less true historically, which is the concentration of a few large companies in the largest indexes - as in, the amount of percentage of capital they have. Fact, FAANG make up 10% of the s&p 500 index, tech makes up 20+ %. It's NOT at all averaged out in the way the Bogleheads might think it is. Is it a "b…

You're conflating index funds with S&P 500 Index funds, though. You can buy an index fund with _zero_ tech stocks. You can buy something like VINIX which has considerably less weight on the BigN tech firms.

Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#149

> I'm not comfortable investing the entirety into an index fund, given the current socio-political climate. Over the the long term there is not really anything better to do with it than equities: the Great Depression, World War 2, gold standard retirement, 1980s inflation, etc. Even if you only invested in the peaks, you'd still do quite well over the decades: * https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2014/02/worlds-worst-m…

> Even if you only invested in the peaks, you'd still do quite well over the decades:

This is not true for a 10 years period though

https://www.vizlit.com/finance/2020/07/01/sp-performance.htm...

You might to add that even though in the past economic growth has always been the case, it doesn't mean it will always be the case, especially now that the energy consumption more or less reached a peak

Re: Ask HN: I have $450K cash, what should I do to maximize my return?

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not a zero sum game necessarily. It is, actually. William F. Sharpe laid it out in the 1991 paper "The Arithmetic of Active Management": * https://web.stanford.edu/~wfsharpe/art/active/active.htm * https://www.jstor.org/stable/4479386?seq=1 Sharpe won the 1990 Economics Nobel for other work: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Sharpe The more active a trader is, over a longer time frame, the more likely…

That can't possibly be true in the limit though. A market with no active management would allocate capital arbitrarily, without an eye to returns. A company burning money on making millions of unwanted skunk-scented bouncy balls would be as likely to attract capital as one that made, say, food or medicine. Resource allocation would break down if nobody made active capital allocation decisions. The question is how hig…

Yes, and not only that, but the index funds a skewed towards entities with large market caps.

Someone could make their own "index fund" with 10% of it allocated to FAANG, maybe 20% of it in the largest tech names overall, and then a distribution of the largest market cap names, and lo and behold, one has an s&p 500 "index fund". Tesla's about to be added to the S&P 500. There are strong opinions on both sides - it's going up, no, it's going down. You don't have much of a choice if you're a Boglehead who bought into the S&P 500, you're just in it for the ride.

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