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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#141

Post by xvector »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #85
xvector wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The manufacturer of the device must not control what apps I run on after buying it. The manufacturer of the device is within their rights to ship the software/hardware experience they want it to have. If you do not like it, then there is no obligation for you to buy said device. You are not entitled to make the device manufacturer pour time and effort into developing support for features like this. It's quite simpl…

I actually do just that: I don't buy apple's devices, for precisely this reason. And I happen to actually like them. This argument you make is actually done to the death. If you don't like Jenko's oil (ever read "The Godfather"?), you may just not buy it. It is a monopoly, and it hurts consumers. I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy be restricted by their shiny digital ha…

> It is a monopoly,

Apple is a minority player in the mobile device space. If you don't want to use an Apple device no one is making you. It will not impact your daily life in any meaningful way whatsoever.

> I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy be restricted by their shiny digital handcuffs.

I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy let governments force private entities to do anything they want under the thinly-veiled guise of antitrust.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#142

Post by osrec »

raz32dust wrote: post #103
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

"Everything Apple is doing is helping make a better app store for me." - it is the benevolent dictator fallacy[1]. You cannot say dictatorship is good because one dictator seems to have done good things. In the same way, just because Apple has been nice so far (in you opinion at least) doesn't mean that the practice itself is good. [1] Don't google it. I made it up.

There's a certain amount of brainwashing I've come to expect from Apple users. My sibling uses a MacBook, but remotes into a Windows machine in order to use Excel and Word, as the native versions on Mac don't seem to have all the advanced functionality. As far as I can tell, there is no specific other use case for the MacBook for my sibling. Yet, they're convinced that their purchase was a great one (I only hear the occasional complaint about how scrolling feels a bit weird, and the lack of certain keys on the keyboard)!

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#143

Post by CivilianZero »

matsemann wrote: post #127
BoysenberryPi wrote: post #63

Genuine question: Why does this matter? I see 0 problems with Apple having a "walled garden." It's their product and their platform so they should be able to decide what gets supported and developed for it. I personally don't like how Apple conducts their business so I just don't use Apple products and that's that.

I think the article explained that reasonably well. One example is that they also make their own apps, so you potentially have to pay your competitor 30% of your income which is more than your own margins. And then they surface their own app and hide your's. Cannot compete against that.

I'm curious how often this has actually occurred in the App Store? I can't think of too many apps that Apple has released that have many competitors. Sure, there are the built in apps (which you can remove) but I certainly haven't seen any lack of To Do or weather apps on the App Store.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#144

Post by threeseed »

osrec wrote: post #95
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

This is not pro-consumer behaviour. This is pro-Apple behaviour. They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. They're even stifling web apps to maintain this monopoly. If they were so pro-consumer, why do they allow spyware such as Tiktok to exist on their platform at all?

Because if you consider TikTok to be spyware then you would need to also block Google, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn etc.

Instead Apple had implemented the most stringent, pro-privacy features and polices on any platform bar none.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#145

Post by matsemann »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #137
matsemann wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article explained that reasonably well. One example is that they also make their own apps, so you potentially have to pay your competitor 30% of your income which is more than your own margins. And then they surface their own app and hide your's. Cannot compete against that.

My issue with the article is that despite acknowledging that Android market share overall they are acting as if Apple is the only game in time. Maybe my thought process is just overly simplistic and I'm missing something because every time the app store gets brought up my general feeling is just don't use Apple. If enough developers abandon the platform they will be forced to change.

A consumer can somewhat choose freely. A developer though has to go where the market is. Not being on the app store is a huge blow to many businesses.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#146

Post by BoysenberryPi »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #117
BoysenberryPi wrote: post #63

Genuine question: Why does this matter? I see 0 problems with Apple having a "walled garden." It's their product and their platform so they should be able to decide what gets supported and developed for it. I personally don't like how Apple conducts their business so I just don't use Apple products and that's that.

Well, you should hope that your country doesn't turn into a authoritarian regime. Cause then you'll be unable to use VPN or any kind of encrypted chats - only those that give access to comrade Major from the secret police. If you think I'm overblowing things, try finding Signal in China's AppStore.

This is a fair point that I was overlooking and was more focused the part of the article that talks about Apple selling their own products and being the "only game in town" regarding selling apps.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#147

Post by scarface74 »

osrec wrote: post #95
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

This is not pro-consumer behaviour. This is pro-Apple behaviour. They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. They're even stifling web apps to maintain this monopoly. If they were so pro-consumer, why do they allow spyware such as Tiktok to exist on their platform at all?

Yes because if it wasn’t for Apple, web apps would bloom like they have on Android....

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#148

Post by echelon »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #85
xvector wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The manufacturer of the device must not control what apps I run on after buying it. The manufacturer of the device is within their rights to ship the software/hardware experience they want it to have. If you do not like it, then there is no obligation for you to buy said device. You are not entitled to make the device manufacturer pour time and effort into developing support for features like this. It's quite simpl…

I actually do just that: I don't buy apple's devices, for precisely this reason. And I happen to actually like them. This argument you make is actually done to the death. If you don't like Jenko's oil (ever read "The Godfather"?), you may just not buy it. It is a monopoly, and it hurts consumers. I'm actually very surprised that this freedom-loving public here on HN is so happy be restricted by their shiny digital ha…

Many of them are Apple and Google employees. Or own Apple and Google stock. (I do, but I still think they're monopolies.)

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#149

Post by scarface74 »

MereInterest wrote: post #67
behnamoh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's their product and they can do whatever they want with it. If anyone doesn't like that, they can easily not purchase iDevices. Apple doesn't force people to buy their products.

It's my phone, and I can do whatever I want with it. If Apple doesn't like that, they can easily maintain ownership by not selling the device. I don't force Apple to sell iPhones instead of leaving them in a warehouse. Once I've bought it, it is mine. The entire idea that Apple can do whatever they want on a device that they have already sold is ludicrous.

And Apple didn’t force you to buy the phone....

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#150

Post by CppCoder »

dkobia wrote: post #36
spullara wrote: post #9

As a consumer, I am 100% in favor of the way run the app store. I don't want to give random apps my credit card. I don't want to have 18 accounts to keep track of. I don't want to have to call telephone support to cancel my account. I don't want malware in my apps. I don't want apps to have my email if they don't need it. I don't need another middleman for content companies license and distribute. Everything Apple is…

As a consumer I love Apple's commitment to high quality apps - a side effect of their review process. As a seller on their marketplace 30% is extremely high. 30% of every sale! For context Amazons referral fee averages about 15%.

Not everyone made apps before Apple. In thoese times the developer got the 30% and the store keept the remaining 70%. Of course often after download, and credit card fees.

I get it, everyone wants always more. And maybe there is more room. Many just view it from their own point of view.

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