Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#141

Post by gbuk2013 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

networkimprov wrote: post #52

I've been a dancer for 30 years, of many forms. The best way I can describe dancing to non-practitioners is that it's like playing a silent, wearable musical instrument that demands attention from your entire body. It is not like playing a sport, except perhaps if you do it competitively :-)

I’m an (international level) competitive ballroom dancer and a martial artist of 15 years and there’s a lot of overlap between the two.

And it’s really valuable to me as a software engineer - at the very least it forces me out of my chair at 6.30pm 5 days a week to go to the studio, when otherwise I could easily find myself working 12-14 hours days because I am “in the zone” (which is easy for me to do because of the years of martial arts and meditation practice) which for sure would not be good for my health.

It is also a great emotional outlet for me as most of my day I am dealing with machines and logic.

And the best part is that I dance with my other half - we spend a lot of time together, travel together and get all our arguments done on the dance floor and not at home! :)

I definitely recommend dancing, any kind, to anyone and everyone.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#142

Post by mtalantikite » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

codr7 wrote: post #71

mtalantikite wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. Before everything shut down I used to practice yoga at a school here in Brooklyn that was very physically demanding and attracted a lot of more advanced practitioners. Most of the advanced students had long histories with dance or martial arts (or both). All of these arts teach increased awareness both physically and mentally, challenges your proprioception, and surprises the body with creative move…

I'm far from objective, having practiced and taught Wing Chun for more than 25 years; but from the martial arts I've been in contact with, WC excels at teaching physical and emotional awareness. Cuts both ways, I've been looking for oppurtunities to teach but people are so nervous and spinning now that it's mostly impossible to reach through.

Well if you know anyone in New York I’d be happy to take a recommendation for a WC teacher. I tested positive for the sars-cov-2 antibodies already, so I’m not as worried about being around people at this point of the pandemic (within reason).

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#143

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

Dancing is one activity I’ve always struggled with. I did musical theater all through school, have gone to dance parties, different music clubs all my life, and I have just always disliked dancing and found it to be tiresome and boring.

I even figured in my early 20s it was one of those things where I had to just keep trying more until I found the right style, but I took adult classes in swing, ballroom, disco, various fitness dance and modern dance and just universally hated it all. I am amazed and wowed by watching professional dancers, but I find the act of doing any kind of dancing for myself is just a deeply mentally disinteresting, grating, boring slog that I can’t get into.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#144

Post by dnquark » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:47 PM UTC

hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

My first dance teacher used to refer to a similar study from 10 years ago in NEJM (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa022252); his commentary is at https://socialdance.stanford.edu/syllabi/smarter.htm

But yeah, getting into lindy hop 15 years ago was literally the best thing that ever happened to me. It's incredible, being able to go to any major city on the planet and instantly finding a community.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#145

Post by dmd » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:52 PM UTC

dnquark wrote: post #144

hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

My first dance teacher used to refer to a similar study from 10 years ago in NEJM ( https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa022252); his commentary is at https://socialdance.stanford.edu/syllabi/smarter.htm But yeah, getting into lindy hop 15 years ago was literally the best thing that ever happened to me. It's incredible, being able to go to any major city on the planet and instantly finding a community.

Similarly, contradance (though that's much more limited to the US).

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#146

Post by acituan » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

> May I translate: They saw improvements in things they could easily measure. They hope this translate into improved cognitive ability. But it actually didn't. But they still hope it'll do that later.

I find your translation misleading. They did see improved cognitive ability, just not superior to the conventional fitness program at the time of measuring. Increased BDNF, which stands for brain-derived neurotrophic factor, is actually pretty significant so they are not pulling potential future development from thin air.

Mind you the sample population is the elderly, for which the prospect of neural growth/protection is pretty important, and this might have further applications to other populations such as recovering alcoholics, methamphetamine users, and even depression/anxiety sufferers where hippocampal volume decrease is indicated.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#147

Post by eigenhombre » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

cik2e wrote: post #115

networkimprov wrote: post #52

I've been a dancer for 30 years, of many forms. The best way I can describe dancing to non-practitioners is that it's like playing a silent, wearable musical instrument that demands attention from your entire body. It is not like playing a sport, except perhaps if you do it competitively :-)

Here are just a few examples of sports that require continuous attention from your entire body in response to an external stimulus: Snowboarding, downhill skiing, mountain biking, and any martial art. These are from personal experience, I’m sure there are plenty of other examples. Even weight training, which is an experimental group in this article, when done properly, requires high levels of neuro-muscular coordinat…

> Every rep that’s done mindfully affords a unique learning opportunity.

Could you suggest a source on this? One that presents this sort of approach to resistance training, ideally for relative newcomers?

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#148

Post by swayson » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

acituan wrote: post #146

hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

> May I translate: They saw improvements in things they could easily measure. They hope this translate into improved cognitive ability. But it actually didn't. But they still hope it'll do that later. I find your translation misleading. They did see improved cognitive ability, just not superior to the conventional fitness program at the time of measuring . Increased BDNF, which stands for brain-derived neurotrophic f…

Always amazed on how dancing and music can lift ones mood :)

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#149

Post by nine_k » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 11:21 PM UTC

Certain folk dances are quite a lot of exercise. Some likely descend from a ritualized exercise / demonstration, like the Ukrainian "gopak". Just estimate the level of physical fitness which allows to dance like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvD21OntHgI

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#150

Post by scollet » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 11:22 PM UTC

I am rhythm challenged, so for me martial arts have been mentally stimulating like improv jazz on a Go board. In sparring you can follow muscle memory to build a dynamic procedure based on your opponents' actions or reactions. You quickly learn the "dance" and when to change tempo because the alternative is pain or discomfort.