Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

blog.aboutamazon.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 247 posts

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#141

Post by blondin »

nytesky wrote: post #45
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my god you ordered food in the mail. Did you put it inside your body? Are you okay?

In times pandemic I’ve been ordering from Target, CVS, and Costco. Do is this a bad idea?

i am as surprised as OP that GP ordered cereals by mail too!

first of all, transportation is not the same. food transportation to grocery stores is most of the time if not always different. in fact, some brands insist on having their own trucks.

i feel like with amazon, even with the prime trucks, everything is thrown together with everything else.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#142

Post by derefr »

ConcernedCoder wrote: post #57
snarf21 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is so simple to solve and they don't have to have a crimes unit to do it. Simply segment reviews and ratings based on seller. All you have to do is have each seller put a scannable sticker on each product based each batch going through intake. You can even still colocate. Then all the returns and bad reviews go to the right person and they can just get banned. This is not rocket surgery.

counterfeit stickers...

Single-use stickers, sent as a roll to the supplier at their registered address. Like a one-time pad of proofs. Each sticker would just be a QR code containing an HMACed {shipper ID, sequence #} string.

When Amazon receives the stock, it adds the sequence # to the set of sequence #s used/acknowledged for that shipper. If there’s a collision, the shipper gets a strike against it (because it’s their responsibility to protect their sticker roll from copying) and the item itself is returned-to-sender as undeliverable (because it was very likely a counterfeit.)

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#143

Post by scoot »

throwawayiionqz wrote: post #108
elliekelly wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you still have the counterfeit tube? It might be worthwhile to get in touch with your Attorney General’s Office. Doubly so if your AG is up for re-election. I imagine a lot of Attorneys General would jump at the chance to stand up to Amazon in defense of poor little baby bottoms and a media-friendly fact pattern like this could help bring about much-needed change at Amazon across all product categories.

Before calling the AG on this, how do you make sure that fake is fake in the first place? The major hurdle is that you do not even know and cannot know. Maybe the product is actually legit and the visual difference comes from temperature or whatever, and the rash appeared for a different reason. One avenue may be to contact the manufacturer with the lot number. If you try a new product and baby develops rashes or all…

> Before calling the AG on this, how do you make sure that fake is fake in the first place?

Contact the manufacturers consumer helpline.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#144

Post by lotsofpulp »

ABeeSea wrote: post #68
gwittel wrote: post #27

Are fake listings a problem? Absolutely. But is it the primary issue? I'm not so sure. It seems like Amazon is doing all sorts of things but not actually addressing the root -- inventory co-mingling + sketchy 3rd party sellers that can come back overnight. Simply ending inventory co-mingling would likely handle a substantial portion of counterfeits since Amazon is sourcing their stock through standard channels. Amazo…

I’m not sure commingling is as big a problem as you imply. Amazon’s inventory system is random so every item can essentially be tracked by location. Even with commingling, if there is a counterfeit all the inventory from the original sourcer can be tracked and pulled. It’s not like they are randomly tossing all of the same item into a random bin and doesn’t know whose is whose. Also Amazon buys from many distributors…

> I’m not sure commingling is as big a problem as you imply.

Commingling is the sole reason I canceled Amazon prime and don’t shop there.

I am spending my money to receive a certain product, and in order to do that I have to trust the vendor. If I can’t trust the vendor, why should I buy from them?

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#145

Post by ckastner »

heavyset_go wrote: post #140
ckastner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would Amazon want to place such onerous restrictions on their suppliers? Because they have a massive counterfeiting problem, as evident by this submission. To reiterate, what I suggested would only be onerous for the highest-risk suppliers. > Amazon's success at being "the everything store" is fundamentally opposed to vetting their suppliers like this. Certainly, Amazon is also fundamentally opposed to customer…

> Certainly, Amazon is also fundamentally opposed to customers becoming victims of counterfeiters on a platform they provide them with. You can't even select "This item is a counterfeit/I suspect this item is a counterfeit" when filing for a return. Surely if they cared about their customers becoming victims of counterfeiters, they'd give the customers who did become victims of counterfeiters on Amazon's marketplace…

Just to be clear, my argument was rhetorical.

I fully agree that in practice, we're seeing something completely different.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#146

Post by lotsofpulp »

rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

> I do still buy from Amazon. The ease of returns still gives me confidence that I can decide after receiving an item whether the price:quality ratio is worth it.

The time and labor spent refunding is well worth spending an extra few dollars at a competing vendor where I don’t have to worry about commingling nonsense.

If you told me 12 years ago that I would be choosing to patronize Best Buy over Amazon, I would have told you Best Buy will be out of business. Lo and behold, I now pay Best Buy (or manufacturer website) whatever they want since I can’t trust Amazon to not send me some AliExpress garbage.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#147

Post by BluePen7 »

mfkp wrote: post #95
rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

I've got a hard rule of not ordering anything from Amazon that goes in/on my body. Too many counterfeits and too much risk. I'll stick with trusted retailers for that (ordering from Target is just about as easy these days, maybe slightly slower shipping but can pick it up in-store if I need it fast). Even Walmart is getting hard to shop online and filter out products that are sold by "marketplace" sellers.

I started following that rule a while ago too, I wouldn't trust some random off-brand food from amazon, but the brand name food has a fair bit of markup.

If the counterfeiters are willing to produce anything to make a buck, and amazon is willing to sell counterfeit goods as legitimate, it makes sense we'd eventually have counterfeit brand name cereal or canned goods.

A while ago my fiancee was having trouble finding some Eagle Brand Medicated Oil (it's this traditional asian stuff her mom rubbed on her), and I saw it was on amazon. It's possible they have changed their manufacturing processes slightly since her previous bottle, or it was different because it wasn't as old, but it just kept being every so slightly different in subtle ways, such as the feel of the bottle and even cap, the texture of the oil, the smell was a bit different, the box was a bit bigger, etc.

I honestly still am not sure if it's counterfeit or not, but that's just the issue, I don't have the means to check. My only choice is to buy from sources with trusted supply chains.

It's ironic, I was the first of all my friends to start using amazon excessively, and got them into it, but nowadays my fiancee remarks she found her workout supplement on there for a few dollars cheaper and I reflexively reply "Hell no! We don't put things from amazon in our body.

At this point I only trust them with things that can fail on their own without causing damage, or for products so complicated no one has made a knock-off yet (I'm waiting on knock-off brand name monitors). They went from this amazing cheaper alternative to big-box stores, to AliExpress with 2 day shipping.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#149

Post by soulofmischief »

throwaway_jobs wrote: post #139
hitpointdrew wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One day Amazon is going to get smacked with such a lawsuit resulting in billions in punitive damages, then and only then will you see real effort on their part to curb this behavior. IIRC at least one person (probably more) has died already from counterfeits on Amazon. I read one where I guy died in a motorcycle crash, it was found that his helmet (which he bought off Amazon) was a fraud and wasn't/didn't meet DOT…

I recall stories of counterfeit child car seats that failed safety standards (don’t think there was a lawsuit) just “undercover purchases” and actual safety testing of the fakes. As I understand it Amazon isn’t liable which to me makes no sense as it relates to defective products (everyone in the supply chain of a defective product should be jointly and severely liable). I don’t care if it’s a 3rd party seller, Amazo…

The alternative is an online marketplace with no accountability. That doesn't sound safe.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#150

Post by csa »

ABeeSea wrote: post #68
gwittel wrote: post #27

Are fake listings a problem? Absolutely. But is it the primary issue? I'm not so sure. It seems like Amazon is doing all sorts of things but not actually addressing the root -- inventory co-mingling + sketchy 3rd party sellers that can come back overnight. Simply ending inventory co-mingling would likely handle a substantial portion of counterfeits since Amazon is sourcing their stock through standard channels. Amazo…

I’m not sure commingling is as big a problem as you imply. Amazon’s inventory system is random so every item can essentially be tracked by location. Even with commingling, if there is a counterfeit all the inventory from the original sourcer can be tracked and pulled. It’s not like they are randomly tossing all of the same item into a random bin and doesn’t know whose is whose. Also Amazon buys from many distributors…

> It’s not like they are randomly tossing all of the same item into a random bin and doesn’t know whose is whose.

Tell this to my buddy who had his card game counterfeited about 3 years ago.

He was getting a lot of complaints about counterfeit products, so he ordered a few and got a few duds.

He ended up having to recall all of his inventory from Amazon, and he found out that a fairly sizable percentage was counterfeit (~20%... can't remember the exact number). According to him, Amazon was literally "tossing all of the same item into a random bin and [didn't] know whose [was] whose".

The solution he ended up going with was paying Amazon extra to separate his items from other potential sellers of his own product. IIRC, he also set up (paid for?) the right to be the sole distributor for new items. I can't remember if he took those actions concurrently or sequentially, but he decided it was cheaper to do both rather than deal with counterfeits.

Post reply on HN