Live data from Hacker News

George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

docs.google.com

141–150 of 855 posts

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#141
I don't see much discussion of root causes here. But a lot of "police ought to be this or that".

Perhaps the best solution is to have more democracy or community input into policing. It seems like it's happening now in the US (it would be quite different in other countries, where the police is national and considered civil servants; in France you can't elect sheriffs, and police is beyond the responsibility of mayors).

In the end, some communities will vote for a police that's tough, and other communities will vote for a police that's less tough. There will still be issues when criminals used to non-tough cops cross into an area with tough cops, but that's life.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#142
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last week I have been starting to realize that what you said is true in general, and not just of protests. It seems that police inflame and instigate most of the violent situations they are involved in. We are literally paying to be abused. We shouldn't be trying to get that money back; we shouldn't even be paying it in the first place.

One example is civil asset forfeiture. Police can and do stop people at random, see if they have “suspicious” valuables or a little too much money, and seize it. It’s virtually impossible to fight the case and it’s literally free money with zero consequence to the police. If you try to deny them their free money, they just arrest you. It’s legally condoned robbery. I’ve had friends who’ve been pulled over while passi…

What’s also bizarre is that it’s probably funding their local department and not some general state account, further skewing incentives.

It’s like the Police has a letter of Marque to do piracy. [0] Except that means they are at war with you, not a foreign country.

0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_marque

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in the last year or decade > what those perps and officers have experienced Both totally irrelevant to whether or not it's appropriate to punch a handcuffed prisoner in the face while they're not resisting. If a cop is suffering from PTSD or stress to the point where they can't keep themselves from assaulting a handcuffed prisoner, then I am genuinely very sorry for them, but they're still in the wrong job and they…

Have you ever had to restrain a person who might want to kill you? While wearing a firearm? I have done some grappling in MA myself, but I imagine the stakes are in another dimension on a real situation. I'm not totally certain there are any people who can be "good" at it in the sense that they'll never make mistakes or lose their cool. Then consider that there are over 10 million situations every year where somethin…

You're making this argument in a thread where police have been found brutally beating people who are already restrained and/or not resisting arrest. People without firearms. Or people that are protesting peacefully. Or a 75 year old man who was entirely harmless.

Come on.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#144
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically a bunch of thugs attack random drivers. One of the thugs jumps into a random car, the car stops, police come, pull the thug out, he resists, they deal with him. I have zero sympathy for the thug. Even when one cop punches "the thug" in the face while he's being walked away while handcuffed?

What would you have done in that situation?

Not punched the handcuffed guy surrounded by police in the face?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#145

There are lots and lots of mishaps in many professions, sometimes with deadly consequences. The United States is a country of 330 million people. Suppose an event is so unlikely it only has 1 in a billion chance of happening--it will happen once ever 4 days on average! Medical errors, for example, are estimated to cause as many as 250,000 deaths per year [1]. There are millions and millions of daily interactions betw…

>It's important to be aware that what the media can be random, and media coverage is not always correlated with how important or prevalent a problem is. Oh cool, a guy on Hacker News cited a John's Hopkins article. Pack it up protestors, racism isn't real and cops aren't tear gasing reporters in the face!

Huh? I didn't say racism isn't real, and I also didn't say cops aren't tear gassing reporters in the face.

GP questioned how a profession can exist when it makes so many deadly mistakes. I pointed out that there is another profession, medicine, which also makes lots of deadly mistakes. Some are accidental oversights, but you can also do some searches and find some really bad medical errors. [1] but you can find lots more.

Again, what the media draws attention to, and what is going on in society on a daily basis, are not the same thing. Racism and police misconduct existed before 2020, but it just in the last few weeks really popped onto the media's attention.

And again, because of the sheer size of the United States, you have to look at statistics in addition to anecdotes when you think about policy.

[1] https://www.mdlinx.com/article/jaw-dropping-medical-mix-ups/...

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#146
post #3

It would be good to stick these videos somewhere where they can't be taken down.

Suggestions? It seems like anyone that is able to provide a service to host video would be just as likely to remove them for the same pressure. P2P torrent with enough people seeding them to make it impossible to remove them is the only thing that comes to mind.

You could probably use an .onion site (or multiple of) as a backup or reference approach too, to retain anonymity.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#147
We might not be able to agree about everything, but can we at least agree that it's in everyone's best interest to have an increasing amount of the world have a generally secure, stable, unconditional personal access to food, housing, education, healthcare, and a labor market and can lives in a society with reasonable laws that they can practically obey?

Even if we don't contribute to that personally, can we at least agree to try to avoid doing things to other countries that get in the way of doing that, in really obvious ways like not randomly bombing them and pretending? Can we just admit to ourselves that a lot of global military expenditure is just a certain kind of make work? As Americans, can we then really not think of a slightly more efficient way to allocate the $7.3T that the American government raises every year from tax revenue, much of which we just light on fire policing things parts of people's lives unnecessarily?

Come on. I'm sure we can. This is like taking your hand off the literal stove. I know how horrible this all looks, and it is horrible, but it's also really easy to propose a solution to it. Divest and reinvest. It could be so many flavors of divest and reinvest, and still be a good enough improvement over how things are right now that it would be the most impressive piece of legislation for probably a 100 year span of time if not 200 years. There has to be an opportunistic, ambitious K-street lobbyist or two reading this, right? Wanna take credit for bringing America out of the dark ages? Come on...you know you want to. Now's your chance.

The bar is at the floor. You could write the dirtiest honker of a bill you've ever seen that it could make the ACA look clean. As long as it achieves the right divestments (global windmill fighting) and reinvestments (domestic production infrastructure), you're on the right track. You don't even have to get it completely right the first time. Perfect is the enemy of done here. Just something major and timely, which lets you evangelize divest and reinvest. You can even rebrand it as "digital transformation" if you really want. I would promise to never judge it as management consultant grifting again.

Because if not...I don't know how long this situation will hold. Those riots are just a taste of unease to come, and eventually, the federal branches of the government will understand how much more powerless they are with dislocation of their local constituencies. Someone is going to figure out how to relocate those constituencies.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorta meaningless unless you cross it against the actual count of people in the occupation (estimates in this list https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/emp-by-detailed-occupation.ht... ) I don't really want to get into the actual meat of the argument, but please use per-capita death stats so the numbers are actually comparable.

Sure, I combined the two tables in the spreadsheet linked below, and there are many occupations that are more dangerous than police officer if we look at fatalities by per-capita occupation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXtv2wnutujfXWUHB9Bm...

This sounds like one arguing that playing russian roulette isn't dangerous, because one can name more dangerous activities. The fact that deep sea fishing is ultra dangerous doesn't mean that being a cop isn't dangerous.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#149

It's worth noting hundreds of police officers lose their life a year in the line of duty: https://www.odmp.org/search/year and many more than that receive serious injuries, even permanent spinal damage: One cop was paralyzed from the neck down in Vegas protests: https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/06/14/police-officer-shot-... Retired police chief killed at 77 by looters in St. Louis: https://thehill.com/homenews/state…

Being a cop is less dangerous than being a pizza delivery driver, and pizza delivery guys don't get guaranteed pensions and a union to protect them when they purposefully beat the living crap out of someone because they had a bad day.

Pizza delivery driving is a dangerous profession because pizza delivery drivers are frequently racing to improve their tips and delivery numbers and drive dangerously, meaning they frequently cause their own deaths[0]:

> Of course, when a pizza delivery driver is injured in a car accident, it is not usually an isolated event; other drivers and passengers are also involved. All too often, the accident is caused by the delivery worker’s negligence. They are racing for tips, trying to uphold the company’s reputation for service, aiming for positive feedback at work, or they are simply checked out and bored because they spend so much time in the car.

Yes, cops frequently kill themselves in traffic accidents as well, but the difference is that they are usually not rushing to a place to put a few dollars in their pocket - but rushing to a place to protect or help someone who called upon them.

[0]https://southfloridainjurylawfirm.com/pizza-companies-take-r...

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#150
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically a bunch of thugs attack random drivers. One of the thugs jumps into a random car, the car stops, police come, pull the thug out, he resists, they deal with him. I have zero sympathy for the thug. Even when one cop punches "the thug" in the face while he's being walked away while handcuffed?

What would you have done in that situation?

Sounds like you’re qualified to be a cop.
Post reply on HN