University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs • Hacker News Board

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#141

Post by uopeoplestudent » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:14 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #108

uopeoplestudent wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've attended several schools online at both the undergrad and graduate level including a for-profit school. I don't find much different between them because they've all followed an asynchronous approach. However, UoPeople is different in that it's much, much less instructor led. They use a "peer learning" pedagogical approach. It's something I quite dislike about the school. I consider it to be poorly implemented an…

Can you give some examples of 'peer learning'? I noticed OP said that about plagiarism and I was curious how that works. The problem with all forced group work and not being able to choose the group is you get a very mixed quality of effort and talent. I'd stay away from any program that pushed that heavily.

"Peer learning" is implement primarily in two ways at UoPeople.

The first is through discussion forums. We are required to post a response to a discussion prompt each week. We return to write a minimum of three responses to our peers, and we also assess their response on a scale of 0-10.

The idea is that peers will touch on different aspects, extend one another's learning, and engage in further discussion. In reality, we end up getting "great post" responses most of the time and minimal effort put in by our peers. That's not always the case, but it happens enough that I don't think it's actually helpful or a meaningful approach.

The other means is through peer assessment of regular assignments (e.g., 'papers,' programming assignments, etc.). We submit these one week, and then our peers read/study and assess our assignments based on established criteria. Peers are supposed to provide feedback on each aspect and then an overall response.

Again, the idea is that we learn through studying and responding to our peers. In reality, most students make minimal effort. So most of the time my assessment responses are limited to "good job." So, not really beneficial. (I've had a few really good responses, but it's rare.)

As for group work, I'm not aware of any instances of that at the school. (I've had it in graduate courses in the past, and I don't like it.)

I really do not like the "peer learning" system at UoPeople. I think it can work, but I don't think you've done a good job of implementing it. And instructors that I've had to date only have minimal interaction with students. (Though, I don't really need it, so it doesn't concern me much.) I've considered transferring several times, but the idea of paying $1-2k per course at a state school vs. $100 per course at UoPeople doesn't appeal to me. (As I've noted elsewhere, I'm not doing this primarily for the degree. Instead, it's about learning for me.)

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#142

Post by derwiki » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:16 AM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #131

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you can't do the middle-class job because you can't write, the piece of paper will only get you so far. It may get you an entry-level job, but you probably won't get much in the way of promotions. So even from that perspective, plagiarism isn't helpful.

To be honest, I arrived at university fully capable of my first job out. I think most people do. The selection process has you write essays and do math and all that shit. Work is hard, but like most things you learn best doing the thing. Not saying SICP was shit. Just that I could have done that in high school and accelerated my time to money (and through it, contentment). Maybe I'll let my kids do something like tha…

Kudos to you— having started coding QBasic in fifth grade, I definitely needed 3-4 years of undergrad to be ready for my first professional SWE job.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#143

Post by uopeoplestudent » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

jki275 wrote: post #138

Nationally accredited. Not regionally accredited. Hence useless for academic purposes.

Not true. There are schools which will consider nationally accredited degrees for admissions into graduate schools. Even the University of Chicago will consider them.

However, it's potential utilization is much, much more diminished compared to a no-name state school.

This might change when (if) they acquire regional accreditation, but they've only just started the process. Thus, it could take upwards of 5 years.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#144

Post by coderintherye » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

dart600 wrote: post #33

Hi. I attended this school and then got accepted to another more standard institution, which I applied at the same time to. The new institution, learning I had been attending U of the P, promptly told me that U of the P credits would not transfer. Universal transferability in question, I opted out. I did enjoy meeting people from all walks of life, all over the world. However, I also saw a grossly wide range of educa…

Not to invalidate your observation, but plagiarism is a hot topic at any college or university. I attended 6 different ones and in all of them it was top or near the top of concerns.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#145

Post by jki275 » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:19 AM UTC

uopeoplestudent wrote: post #143

jki275 wrote: post #138

Nationally accredited. Not regionally accredited. Hence useless for academic purposes.

Not true. There are schools which will consider nationally accredited degrees for admissions into graduate schools. Even the University of Chicago will consider them. However, it's potential utilization is much, much more diminished compared to a no-name state school. This might change when (if) they acquire regional accreditation, but they've only just started the process. Thus, it could take upwards of 5 years.

Not really. It's a story that nationally accredited schools like to tell, but it's not really true.

Regionally accredited schools simply don't take credits from schools that aren't.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#146

Post by jariel » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:20 AM UTC

themodelplumber wrote: post #97

infogulch wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a subjective ethics problem. It's a competence problem. If you can't formulate your own thoughts into a coherent statement (the purpose of learning to write) then you'll be useless to anyone that needs new coherent arguments.

That's a bit of an overreach, isn't it, calling my writing incoherent and incompetent? (Edit: Parent clarified that "you" is meant to mean a hypothetical student, not me.) If more information is needed, as was the case here, we can ask questions. That's got nothing to do with author competence. It's not an essay contest. And why assume we know it all, filling in the gaps like that? In a discussion of ethics, this is…

His statement was very matter of fact.

If students don't bother to do the work, they won't develop any competence in the discipline.

It would be like sending someone for Scala training, only to have them skip all of the work, buy the answers to the quiz, get the accreditation.

University is about much more than 'skill acquisition' but there is a lot of that. Cheating is almost universally pointless.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#147

Post by themodelplumber » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:27 AM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #134

themodelplumber wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Power struggle between teachers and students via... Uh, did I say that, or were you intuiting? Not exactly a learner's approach :D > Plagiarizing some work doesn't really hurt the work, it hurts you. Except when it benefits you? This is the subjective perception I was talking about. That their mindset differs does not instantly make them wrong, especially when you can throw a dime out the window and hit an educated…

> Uh, did I say that, or were you intuiting? What is it with this everywhere on HN these days where people assume every response someone makes is a refutation? It's a conversation, dude. People will take it places. Sometimes people will build on ideas you mention. Other times people will take an incident and draw their own conclusions. Other times people will draw on a similar incident or talk about a related concept…

Hmm, I think it's only fair that we zoom in a bit from "everyone on HN complaints" to the details in question. Otherwise it makes it appear that you want to avoid discussing details in question which directly flow into the qualitative nature of this discussion.

I just re-read what you wrote. If you're saying your response was not a refutation, given that you wrote "is not best characterized as," I think it's pretty clear as to why that could be misunderstood, to say the least. It seems clear to me that you were replying in direct disagreement and also projecting words I never said right into your reasoning. And further, it now seems as if you're claiming that I'm being assumptive. This is just compounding, not helping.

I think specifics are important here because it's unfortunately common for people to attempt to sweep pesky details under their subjective-ethical rug in the name of [hand wave]. Since this is an ethics discussion some due concern to communicating ethically seems reasonable to expect. If that's frustrating, maybe you can at least see the frustration on both sides.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#148

Post by uopeoplestudent » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:27 AM UTC

misterhtmlcss wrote: post #111

uopeoplestudent wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll just add that many UoPeople students in the US transfer to WGU to complete their bachelor's degree. (WGU is regionally accredited, so it carried more weight. And it accepts UoPeople credits.)

So the savvy move if you have the cash is to do your three years and then what transfer to your final year at WGU? That's so smart. What more do you know about this strategy? Can you introduce me to anyone who has done this?

If you're on Yammer, look for the group "UoPeople Computer Science Majors Discord Server." Post a message to that group about HN. I'll find you and send an invite.

Several of the students on that Discord are doing this or have done this. I know one is just about to graduate from WGU after doing it.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#149

Post by a-nikolaev » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:29 AM UTC

infogulch wrote: post #49

themodelplumber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> could not grasp the idea of plagiarism being unethical I remember experiencing this at a private religious university. At the time, my hyper-religious mind was blown to see students outright cheating in the Testing Center. Since then I've been exposed to additional perspectives on plagiarism. It is an extremely deep and nuanced topic. A few years out of school, I ended up mentoring and then teaching college student…

The problem with plagiarism isn't best characterized as some sort of power struggle between teachers and students via bullshit assignments. The purpose of learning to write is to make yourself a formidable communicator. If you can independently analyze a new topic to learn something new and apply the results of those learnings towards a particular goal, you can be amazingly effective in everything you aim for. But if…

I think, plagiarism also harms the character. If instead of doing things right and put effort, you cheat, eventually you learn that doing things right does not worth it. And then it becomes a personal trait, so to speak.

Re: University of the People: Tuition-Free, Accredited Online Degree Programs

#150

Post by phaus » Fri, Jun 12, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

uopeoplestudent wrote: post #41

non-entity wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not saying this is a scam, but it feels like a scam. Not directly related to your specific concern, but every attempt to make a open / democratized degree has felt like that to me, unfortunately. Example: There was an online degree program I saw that awarded a real, regionally accredited degree from a state university. The degree and course work were exactly the same, but the online program was basically open. No a…

I've attended several schools online at both the undergrad and graduate level including a for-profit school. I don't find much different between them because they've all followed an asynchronous approach. However, UoPeople is different in that it's much, much less instructor led. They use a "peer learning" pedagogical approach. It's something I quite dislike about the school. I consider it to be poorly implemented an…

>It's not something I would recommend for weak learners and/or for many who need a regionally accredited degree.

I should hope not given the fact that they are not regionally accredited and now that they have finally applied they likely won't be for another 2-3 years. Assuming they pass.