Anxiety in product development • Hacker News Board

Re: Anxiety in product development

#141

Post by chrisweekly » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 8:17 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #72

neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

I find that emotional compartmentalization is a critical skill. A couple years ago, I faced a very tough time in my life. My business was collapsing, my family's finances were in jeopardy, and there was a serious health issue going on. The emotional stress was incapacitating. I couldn't sleep, let alone focus enough to fix my problems. It was the downward spiral nightmare scenario. If I didn't have dependents (wife +…

Wonderful. Stoicism in action. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Anxiety in product development

#142

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 8:55 PM UTC

One of the things about fear, is that it is not a useless reaction.

Fear isn't really an "emotion." It's a "reaction." It's a temporary state that we are designed to engage when we are in danger, and exit when the danger is past.

And it works very well. When we are scared, our adrenaline amps up, our capillaries expand, our blood pressure increases, our senses sharpen, etc. There's been a gazillion studies on the physiological manifestations of a state of fear.

Our thinking also gets affected. It becomes fairly "binary." Stand very still, or run away. Don't just stand there thinking. Make a decision. Do something. No time to evaluate. No grey areas. It's either good, or bad.

Anger is really a manifestation of fear. The reactions are quite similar.

They are both reactions that are designed to be temporary. Being in either a state of fear, or anger, for extended lengths of time, is corrosive to our health; both mental and physical.

But the really dangerous thing, is that the "binary" thinking is bad; especially in areas where we are making long-term decisions. If we need to make a decision to run, we don't look further than the next bend. That's why a squirrel runs in front of a car, escaping someone walking down the sidewalk (happened to me a couple of days ago. The squirrel was fine, because the driver saw them, and jammed on the brakes).

Many managers work on fear. They like to keep a state of anxiety going. I won't dwell on the reasons, but I feel as if it is a bad thing, for engineers, because it encourages us to take tactical shortcuts and "patch" fixes, as opposed to considered, strategic reasoning, and long-term, "holistic" fixes.

I was a manager for many years, and I feel that one of my most important jobs was to shield my team from the immense pressure that was piled onto me.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#143

Post by dhimes » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 9:11 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #59

codr7 wrote: post #34

I've spent around 34 years writing code so far. My last project was an online order system for a lunch restaurant. To get an idea what kind of problems they're dealing with, I started by working two weeks in the restaurant. To my surprise I found that I actually enjoy delivering food more than writing code. As long as the customers get the food they ordered delivered in time, everyone is happy. And once I'm done, I'm…

I get this entirely. And for me, this is driven by broken feedback loops in software. Some years back, I started a company with an excellent product manager, one very focused on actual user impact. One of the first things we did is build a tiny, cheap usability lab; every Tuesday we'd have 4 users in to try things out. We rigged it so engineers could watch the sessions remotely, and for the sessions we didn't watch,…

How do you recruit users? Do you pay them?

Re: Anxiety in product development

#144

Post by anon_1357111317 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 9:38 PM UTC

cmehdy wrote: post #127

pathseeker wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>who you are can absolutely be changed by external circumstances Yes, but that's focusing on the very unlikely external circumstances and defeating the point. 99.99% of the daily stuff that seems important actually is not and it's healthier to live a model assuming it's not important rather than worrying that everything could be that devastating brain tumor or IED taking out your bus.

In the US alone, for TBI alone, there were almost 3 million TBI-related emergency department visits in 2014[0]. One in 4,000 babies born in the US have hypothyroidism[1]. At the lower bound, there is 0.25% of the US population subject to schizophrenia[2]. If we go and look at things like Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), 2.7% of US adults have had it in the past year, 32% of which had serious impairments associated…

Among women, about 5% have hypothyreosis, and depression/sadness and anxiety are some of the consequences (varies from person to person). And 2% of the men.

@pathseeker wrote: "very unlikely external circumstances"

But it's not just 1 - 99.99% = 0.01% that needs medication and other help than "just" meditation. Looking only at hypothyreosis, it's more like 2% or 5%.

@cmehdy it seems to me that you 1) work with health care, or 2) you have something like hypothyreosis or GAD yourself or people you know? or 3) you're a researcher? or 4) TBI happened to someone you know? (If it's too private then obviously no need to reply : ) And best wishes with your work)

Re: Anxiety in product development

#145

Post by anon_1357111317 » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 9:45 PM UTC

jka wrote: post #140

cmehdy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US alone, for TBI alone, there were almost 3 million TBI-related emergency department visits in 2014[0]. One in 4,000 babies born in the US have hypothyroidism[1]. At the lower bound, there is 0.25% of the US population subject to schizophrenia[2]. If we go and look at things like Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), 2.7% of US adults have had it in the past year, 32% of which had serious impairments associated…

I believe you and hear you. Not all events are under our control, and not everyone is able to lead a pain-free life. The general audience here may have some skewed (and perhaps limited) experiences. Those of us fortunate to have good health and the ability to improve our circumstances should be glad for those opportunities, not take them for granted, and try to extend them to others.

Nicely written : )

> Those of us fortunate to have good health and the ability to [...]

And it's not easy to see from the outside if that's the case for another person -- I think often they'd want to hide things like anxiety and depression. Or me, when I had those anxiety and sadness problems -- I spent most time at home alone

Re: Anxiety in product development

#146

Post by cmehdy » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 10:23 PM UTC

anon_1357111317 wrote: post #144

cmehdy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US alone, for TBI alone, there were almost 3 million TBI-related emergency department visits in 2014[0]. One in 4,000 babies born in the US have hypothyroidism[1]. At the lower bound, there is 0.25% of the US population subject to schizophrenia[2]. If we go and look at things like Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), 2.7% of US adults have had it in the past year, 32% of which had serious impairments associated…

Among women, about 5% have hypothyreosis, and depression/sadness and anxiety are some of the consequences (varies from person to person). And 2% of the men. @pathseeker wrote: "very unlikely external circumstances" But it's not just 1 - 99.99% = 0.01% that needs medication and other help than "just" meditation. Looking only at hypothyreosis, it's more like 2% or 5%. @cmehdy it seems to me that you 1) work with health…

Without getting into the details: kind of a combination of things, indeed :)

I just think it's time we as a society accept and understand that having support and medication for things that relate to our mental health is fully part of the toolbox of healing, and not a fringe thing that remains on the sidelines for an insignificant proportion of people.

Most people will spend some amount of time in a hospital or clinic in their lives, for a broken bone, a disease, or some functional change to their teeth, or whatever else. It's all pretty accepted, nobody thinks that it's a fringe thing.

We should accept that the way we look at psychiatry or targeted support for mental illnesses should be similar to surgery for broken bones: if you have a sprain just take good care of things at home with basic knowledge, but if there's a chance you have a fracture you won't make your bones heal well by praying or by finding a blog post, you need professionals for however long that situation lasts. And there are way more mental fractures out there than people like to admit to themselves and each others.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#147

Post by amatecha » Thu, Jun 04, 2020, 11:17 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #72

neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

I find that emotional compartmentalization is a critical skill. A couple years ago, I faced a very tough time in my life. My business was collapsing, my family's finances were in jeopardy, and there was a serious health issue going on. The emotional stress was incapacitating. I couldn't sleep, let alone focus enough to fix my problems. It was the downward spiral nightmare scenario. If I didn't have dependents (wife +…

Thanks man. <3

Re: Anxiety in product development

#148

Post by kupopuffs » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 12:19 AM UTC

neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

Matter, how tiny my share

Time, how brief my allotment

Fate, how small my roll to play

Self, all that can be mastered

Re: Anxiety in product development

#149

Post by throwaway180118 » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 4:36 AM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #72

neutronicus wrote: post #18

I think the serenity prayer, sans unnecessary theological content, is relevant here. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the ones I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. For a lot of software products, there is no winning in the long run. You've got good product-market fit and customer loyalty, but your code base is a huge mess and the hard technical problems are so…

I find that emotional compartmentalization is a critical skill. A couple years ago, I faced a very tough time in my life. My business was collapsing, my family's finances were in jeopardy, and there was a serious health issue going on. The emotional stress was incapacitating. I couldn't sleep, let alone focus enough to fix my problems. It was the downward spiral nightmare scenario. If I didn't have dependents (wife +…

I read your post a few hours ago, and it stuck with me long enough that I've returned to up-vote and reply.

Thank you, genuinely.

Re: Anxiety in product development

#150

Post by wpietri » Fri, Jun 05, 2020, 5:19 AM UTC

dhimes wrote: post #143

wpietri wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get this entirely. And for me, this is driven by broken feedback loops in software. Some years back, I started a company with an excellent product manager, one very focused on actual user impact. One of the first things we did is build a tiny, cheap usability lab; every Tuesday we'd have 4 users in to try things out. We rigged it so engineers could watch the sessions remotely, and for the sessions we didn't watch,…

How do you recruit users? Do you pay them?

Depends a lot on your audience. In our case we were making a general consumer product, so we just advertised on Craigslist saying we were doing market research. You get a lot of dross that way, but my cofounder had a sophisticated screener questionnaire and ways to root out most of the goofs.