Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 430 posts

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#141

Post by throwaway894345 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #100
Press2forEN wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real problem is that those two political parties represent factions of the population with incompatible values. We don't need more political parties, we need solutions to manage the incompatibility.

There was nothing incompatible about our values regarding what we saw in that video. The idea that there was a political divide about this incident is a myth. Even the openly racist people I know were saying it was fucked up.

Even the police unions condemned it. It's literally the only thing we agree on, but certain people keep holding up this obviously false dichotomy that we can only care about this political violence or the Floyd murder.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#142

Post by saagarjha »

frogpelt wrote: post #44

I agree with almost everything Mr. Obama wrote. But... I feel the complete opposite of “hopeful” when I see these riots, when I see people so angry they will destroy their own cities. Because it accomplishes the exact opposite of they hope it will accomplish: 1. Those who side with heavy-handed police tactics feel vindicated for their prejudices. 2. The communities of those who feel unheard and left out are torn down…

> But there will always be unnecessary deaths in law enforcement situations.

The goal is to bring that number as close to zero as possible.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#143

Post by lovegoblin »

frockington1 wrote: post #115
bananabreakfast wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's surprising about that? I'm actually asking, not trying to provoke. There are four years of precedent of the leadership specifically and intentionally dividing and radicalizing the nation to directly drive electoral support to maintain power. Cruelty to outside groups is historically a very effective means to consolidate power. This is completely in line with past behavior and will more than likely continue.

4 years? Probably closer to 40 on all sides of the spectrum

But BOTh SiDES ArE ThE SaME

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#145

Post by lliamander »

nradov wrote: post #25
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. Taboos around violence for political are one of the crucial building blocks for a functioning democracy. If those taboos are broken, even for a good cause, you set a precedence that violence works. And the next cause won’t be as good. One only has to look at the lessons of the Roman Revolution that started with the murder of Grachus, and ended w…

I don't condone violence, but at the same time you have to acknowledge that modern American democracy was built on the foundation of political violence. It worked for us.

The violence of the American Revolution was targeted at the government institutions and military that directly threatened them.

These riots are targeted at innocent civilians. Destroying peoples livelihoods, setting fire to residences with people still inside (including children), etc.

I would not be so quick to draw such a comparison.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#146

Post by throwaway894345 »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #98
kajumix wrote: post #35

"I’ve heard some suggest that the recurrent problem of racial bias in our criminal justice system proves that only protests and direct action can bring about change, and that voting and participation in electoral politics is a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. The point of protest is to raise public awareness... But eventually, aspirations have to be translated into specific laws and institutional practices —…

I would agree with you except basically everyone was on the same side as soon as the video was released. Everyone, right, left, and center agreed there was a serious problem. So what are we raising awareness about?

I don't think everyone knew that everyone agreed that there was a serious problem. The media were really boosting the usual divisive narrative, but I won't speculate here as to why.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#147

Post by clairity »

hkai wrote: post #137
clairity wrote: post #129

> "So the bottom line is this: if we want to bring about real change, then the choice isn’t between protest and politics. We have to do both . We have to mobilize to raise awareness, and we have to organize and cast our ballots to make sure that we elect candidates who will act on reform." obama spends the first 7 paragraphs explaining the ideals of government and the vulgarity of violence, and somehow ends up on thi…

> police kill members of their community at random. I understand your emotion, but saying that the police walks in the street killing random black people is also unproductive. You can imagine folks on the right showcasing your post as an example of the "loony left", then starting a discussion about the fact that more whites are killed by police, and so on. Each time that happens, you lose a tiny bit of support, and t…

no, trying to dismiss the point as emotion or leaning on name-calling are non-sequiturs. people are mad, rightfully so, and being good little citizens doesn't change anything.

you demonstrate my exact point: obama cares about elections and the slow, meandering civil process. he's insulated from the consequences of having that position, unlike the people on the streets.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#148

Post by saagarjha »

vixen99 wrote: post #31
tobyhinloopen wrote: post #2

love that guy. Great write.

For those who have a different view (if that's allowed) https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/05/obama-administration-...

> if that's allowed

Please don't.

FWIW, I see little relevance of the article you just linked in what appears to be a conversation of the former president's writing abilities.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#149

Post by wl »

frockington1 wrote: post #108
pathseeker wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I cannot condone violence nor encourage it, but you have to admit that the first few protests and property damage drastically influenced the quick arrest of an officer that may not have been arrested or even fired if it didn't happen. But it's not clear that the violence/property damage component was worth it. Nationwide protests and all of the public outcry could have been enough. Hard to tell at this point.

Not to mention that the communities they are destroying don't have a great tax base to begin with. After destroying businesses and property its going to shrink even more.

The Loop in Chicago, which was recently smashed up almost as well as any, is probably one of the better tax bases.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#150

Post by throwaway894345 »

Avicebron wrote: post #90
supercanuck wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

violence speaks the language of the non-educated in the short term, but it does more damage in the long run.

On the other hand, the french revolution, the american revolution, and the civil war could be argued to be violent protests for reform that did some good. I think slow erosion of rights and safety nets through quiet periods of apathy does more harm to more people, and becomes harder to reverse in the long run.

Can we not make comparisons between revolutions against oppressive monarchies for the right to representation and opportunistic looting and rioting? People's homes and livelihoods are literally going up in smoke and these riots aren't even over yet--can we hold off on the vague defenses of political violence?
Post reply on HN