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Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

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Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#141

Post by trhway »

rewoi wrote: post #134
acqq wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also relevant to demonstrate now that this virus too hasn't been made in the lab. The "lab origin" is a claim that some like to spread on every outbreak, even in spite of the fact that virologists know that nature produces the viruses very easily and there are no facts supporting anything else this time too. From the abstract: "Our phylogenetic analyses date the origin of the pandemic lineage of HIV-1 to a time…

The question is not really "was this particular one man made?", but "is it possible?" It is pretty obvious 1970ties technology was not advanced enough to pull this stunt. But times change.

the "gain-of-function" experiments - ie. increasing the deadliness and transmissibility of a virus - doesn't seem to require any meaningful technology, at least not the way it was done in the Wuhan labs to the coronavirus[1]. Such "improved" virus wouldn't look like a "lab made". In theory similar gain-of-function experiments could have resulted in the human transmissible HIV back then.

[1]https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan...

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#142

Post by eitland »

rewoi wrote: post #134
acqq wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also relevant to demonstrate now that this virus too hasn't been made in the lab. The "lab origin" is a claim that some like to spread on every outbreak, even in spite of the fact that virologists know that nature produces the viruses very easily and there are no facts supporting anything else this time too. From the abstract: "Our phylogenetic analyses date the origin of the pandemic lineage of HIV-1 to a time…

The question is not really "was this particular one man made?", but "is it possible?" It is pretty obvious 1970ties technology was not advanced enough to pull this stunt. But times change.

> It is pretty obvious 1970ties technology was not advanced enough to pull this stunt. But times change.

Take a step back:

We've been collecting useful yeasts for brewing and cheese production for a very long time, reusing those who yielded better results.

Same as with plants and animals.

So while I don't believe it is man made or synthetic or anything it is smart to have multiple lines of defense against conspiracy theories.

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#143

Post by masonic »

scythe wrote: post #21
etrabroline wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Regan administration had two options. The first was to spend billions of dollars hoping to find a cure while certain behaviors continued to spread the virus. (what these activists wanted) The second option was to reduce the occurrence of those behaviors, namely intravenous recreational drug use, and unprotected sex with large numbers of sexual partners, which is particularly widespread among homosexual males. The…

>The second option was to reduce the occurrence of those behaviors, namely intravenous recreational drug use The Reagan administration banned needle exchanges: https://www.csis.org/blogs/smart-global-health/history-ban-f... >, and unprotected sex with large numbers of sexual partners, which is particularly widespread among homosexual males. The continuing pathologization of homosexuals reduced their access to medical…

  The Reagan administration banned needle exchanges
Declining to include Federal funding in his budget is not "banning".

Funding bills originate in the House. The House was Democrat controlled for Reagan's entire tenure. The Speaker or Ways and Means could have added that funding at any time. There was never a line-item veto mechanism.

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#144

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

ImaCake wrote: post #108
ekianjo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High risk but most infected have close to no symptoms which is nothing like AIDS which used to be a death sentence.

But even a tiny mortality rate is catastrophic when talking about city and country sized populations. The lockdowns happened for a reason, because this disease overwhelms public health.

And if enough people start dying the disease overwhelms public everything.

In the UK, some schools are refusing to reopen and some people are refusing to return to work in spite of government orders.

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#145

Post by blfr »

ImaCake wrote: post #109
drewbug01 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which doesn't really mean that HIV/AIDS is not dangerous, but rather it underscores how much more dangerous CoViD really is. I truly hope we manage a better response than the AIDS crisis, because a similar response to COVID-19 would be incredibly devastating.

I wonder what HIV would have done if it hit before mass adoption of protective equipment for sex. I think it could have brought civilization to it's knees.

Before mass adoption of protective equipment for sex people had the social technology to deal with it: monogamy.

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#146

Post by bdauvergne »

drewbug01 wrote: post #49
gumby wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know how public restrooms in the USA always have paper toilet seat covers? This dates to that era (the product existed already but was extremely uncommon). Because of that whenever I see those I think of the bigoted attitude that lead to their deployment and won't use them.

I respect your commitment to fighting bigotry, but I mean - those toilets can be pretty nasty. May as well use them, now that we have them. :)

There are more pathogens on your hands than on your butt, as you touch the whole world with your hands and keep your butt most of the time in your pants.

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#147

Post by detritus »

sandebert wrote: post #130
qubex wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy’s 1990 “ AIDS: If you know it, you avoid it ” public service advertisement is indelibly seared into the consciousness of my whole generation. Drawing purple outlines around things is still an instant reminder of that. The soundtrack is often heard overlaid over threatening scenarios much as the Benny Hill soundtrack is overload over situations to indicate they are ‘funny’. https://youtu.be/so94WTK8kBw

What a sad way to ruin the song "Oh Superman" by Laurie Anderson.

It's one of my all-time favourite songs, since I was a kid. Italian partner looked at me oddly first time I played it at home, as her memory of it was all bundled up in grim negativity.

It's not a song that gets played much at home, when she's about :(

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#149

Post by aaron695 »

acqq wrote: post #119
ImaCake wrote: post #110

People might be interested in why this useful. Much like with Covid today, scientists are interested in understanding when the disease first appeared. Because that gives us clues about where it came from and how quickly it is changing now. You can estimate this based on changes in the sequence of the genome. Changes (mutations) will appear in the genome at a predictable rate ("mutation rate"), and is measured as muta…

It's also relevant to demonstrate now that this virus too hasn't been made in the lab. The "lab origin" is a claim that some like to spread on every outbreak, even in spite of the fact that virologists know that nature produces the viruses very easily and there are no facts supporting anything else this time too. From the abstract: "Our phylogenetic analyses date the origin of the pandemic lineage of HIV-1 to a time…

Clearly a Cabal could be faking this dated sample.

I don't see how anything is demonstrated.

Why couldn't a Cabal with a high tech lab that released a man made virus also be responsible for this. I don't get the step in the logic?

I'd like to see your argument a dishonest researcher couldn't fake this result just for citations?

“It turns out that you can retrieve [RNA] more than 50 years later, even if the thing has been sitting in a drawer at ambient temperature. Which can be pretty warm in Kinshasa,” says Worobey, who studies the evolutionary origin of pathogens at the University of Arizona, in an interview with The Atlantic. “Just on that sequence, we’ve been plugging away for more than five years,” he adds in an interview with News-Medical.Net.

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/hiv-1-genome-extr...

Re: Oldest 'nearly complete' HIV genome found in forgotten tissue sample from 1966

#150

Post by masklinn »

> Those fragments were also from different subtypes of HIV, Gryseels said, which shows that the virus had been circulating for some time in humans before the 1950s.

That was already pretty much a certainty from the already known fragmentary genomes (also mostly from the DRC), as well as the phylogenetic analysis of known strains, groups and subtypes.

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