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Why no looting in Japan?

caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com

141–150 of 191 posts

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#141
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe." Bangladesh is 98% ethnic Bengali; you can read about their crime here http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1011.html#c... ("U.S. citizens should avoid walking alone after dark, carrying large sums of money, or wearing expe…

I can confirm about Switzerland. When I visited Zurich a couple of years ago I saw things unimaginable for my city, like people leaving their unchained bikes outside their apartment buildings.

Ah, but were they their own bikes? :)

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#142
post #65
post #61

Japan takes a lot of criticism for being a closed off culture. After living here for a while I have started to believe that it is necessary to support these values. Multiculturalism means lowest common denominator. There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe. When I came to Tokyo,…

> Nobody has to lock their bikes, Wait, you live in Tokyo, don't you? (I think we met at one of the meetups) Everybody locks their bikes here, and even so bycicle theft is common (well, at least compared to the other types of crime). My own bycicle was stolen while I was out of the country for a couple of weeks... That said, I understand that's not the main point of your comment.

When I lived in Tokyo my roommate had both his bicycle and a motorcycle stolen from outside our apartment building which was in a very nice quiet residential area.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#143
This is an outrageously biased article. The previous two globally-advertised large-scale disasters happened in western anglo countries and had minimal, if any, looting. I'm talking about the floods that devastated Brisbane and the Queensland coast, quickly followed by a category 5 cyclone smashing into Townsville (Australia) and the Christchurch earthquake where the centre of the city was levelled (New Zealand).

Both of these disasterous events had extremely little looting. Both of these events saw strong outpourings of community spirit and solidarity, with lots of volunteering and food drops. It's not something that's mysteriously Japanese.

This is important because the article paints this as a Japan vs the World thing by roping in the UK, Chile and Haiti.

The article lists the following as reasons why there is little looting in Japan: - buddhism and shinto - honour and dignity - conformity and consensus - national pride - high discipline - they return your lost wallet - more highly evolved race (!) Few of these are attributes that random interviewees would say are characteristics of Australians or New Zealanders

The Japanese are a unique culture and credit needs be given where due, but we need to stop talking about them as if they're magical and mysterious, beyond mortal ken just like Tolkein's elves.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#144
post #137

This is something that really surprised me about Japanese culture. I went there in 2008 for a study tour and one of the things that really impressed me is how different their attitude towards shared property and public space is. On numerous occasions I saw things where I thought: wow, in my country (The Netherlands) this would totally get abused, vandalized or stolen. Not that my country is not safe or dirty, just th…

In Japan, one could just reach out and do just that, yet nobody did. What would be the challenge or rule-breaking here? If you can just do it, there's no accomplishment. The more you guard something the more valuable breaking it becomes. Reminds me of the old story of a mainframe operator who, having grown a frustration against users hacking the system to have it shutdown, simply added a suid script accessible to eve…

Most vandals aren't looking for a challenge. They're looking for something to destroy.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#145
post #95
post #61

Japan takes a lot of criticism for being a closed off culture. After living here for a while I have started to believe that it is necessary to support these values. Multiculturalism means lowest common denominator. There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe. When I came to Tokyo,…

"There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe." Bangladesh is 98% ethnic Bengali; you can read about their crime here http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1011.html#c... ("U.S. citizens should avoid walking alone after dark, carrying large sums of money, or wearing expe…

The parent meant you _can_ do a lot more in a monoculture, not that having one automatically means higher civilization.

Your examples look a lot like shooting a straw man... if he had said monocultures always imply civilization, his argument would be dead right now.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#146

This is something that really surprised me about Japanese culture. I went there in 2008 for a study tour and one of the things that really impressed me is how different their attitude towards shared property and public space is. On numerous occasions I saw things where I thought: wow, in my country (The Netherlands) this would totally get abused, vandalized or stolen. Not that my country is not safe or dirty, just th…

My experience of visiting there very much agrees with yours. I particularly remember walking down a dark ally in Kyoto one night, half way down the ally there's this brightly lit vending machine shining like a beacon, in perfect condition, not vandalised, not kicked in, not damaged in any way. I saw many similar examples of this respect for property throughout my time there. This left an impression on me because in my country, a beacon-like vending machine in the middle of a dark ally within a large city would last about one night.

There's certainly pros and cons to the Japanese culture, as with any culture I suppose. The attitude that displays its self in the preservation of the the vending machine is one of the pros. But along with it seems to comes an immensely strong pressure to conform and sacrifice. This is the country that produced the Kamikaze[1] and took ritual suicide almost to the level of an art form.

1. I visited the Chiran Peace Museum (http://wgordon.web.wesleyan.edu/kamikaze/museums/chiran/inde...) while I was in Japan, I found it fascinating to learn of the history of the Kamikaze and see all the paraphernalia on show. I had only ever seen the classic footage of the Kamikaze flying into US ships. I did not know that they also had defensive Kamikaze who would protect Japanese cities by flying into enemy bombers and also small Kamikaze speed boats.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#147
post #137

This is something that really surprised me about Japanese culture. I went there in 2008 for a study tour and one of the things that really impressed me is how different their attitude towards shared property and public space is. On numerous occasions I saw things where I thought: wow, in my country (The Netherlands) this would totally get abused, vandalized or stolen. Not that my country is not safe or dirty, just th…

In Japan, one could just reach out and do just that, yet nobody did. What would be the challenge or rule-breaking here? If you can just do it, there's no accomplishment. The more you guard something the more valuable breaking it becomes. Reminds me of the old story of a mainframe operator who, having grown a frustration against users hacking the system to have it shutdown, simply added a suid script accessible to eve…

Why does it have to be a challenge? Some people are just jerks and they get their thrill from knowing that they've screwed up some people's journeys.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#148
post #7

The Japanese have a lot of respect. When I visited a common thing said was "If you leave your wallet on the street and come back a day later, it's likely it will still be there or in the closest shop."

Another example of this: when I lived in Japan, I used to park (and lock) my bicycle at a very crowded station and leave it there for several hours. I locked the bicycle but sometimes left my coat in the basket. I continued this habit for several weeks, until finally I left my bicycle there over the weekend while going on a trip. When I came back, the coat was gone. The bicycle was still there, of course.

That said, the most likely and annoying thing to happen to your bicycle in Japan is that the parking police will steal it if you park near a crowded place (eg. any train station) and place it in some storage facility far away from where you live, where you then have to go by bus to pick up your bicycle and cycle home. This happened to me at least 3 times..

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#149
The answer to this question is completely obvious to people who spent formative years in Asia and are free of American/Western taboos (we have other taboos no doubt but not these).

Here is why there is no looting in Japan. Across the world -- in the US, UK, Canada, Brazil, South Africa and any country where they live side by side -- people of primarily Northeast Asian descent tend to commit crime at lower rates than people of primarily European descent, who in turn tend to commit crime at lower rates than people of primarily sub-Saharan African descent.

You can google the various crime stats if you aren't aware of this. Here are the California state statistics:

http://stats.doj.ca.gov/cjsc_stats/prof09/00/22.htm

Divide that by California population totals to get the rank ordering of violent crime rates by population.

You can also look at table 43 of the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, which is fine for establishing the black/Asian violent crime ratio, but which lumps Hispanics in with whites, inflating the apparent white violent crime rate.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/data/table_43.html

Similar stats can be obtained for other countries with a bit of googling. Now, the absolute magnitudes do change (1), which one could legitimately ascribe to the local culture. But the trend is very consistent.

There isn't a country across the world that I'm aware of in which people of primarily sub-Saharan African descent commit crime at a lower rate (or have higher educational levels, incomes, and so on) than people of Northeast Asian descent. Interested in counterexamples, but this appears to be a very consistent pattern.

Obviously there are other factors as well. But the probability of looting seems to be proportional to a group's propensity to disorganized violence (e.g. murder, rape, robbery) and inversely proportional to their ability to commit organized violence (e.g. military actions).

No doubt this post is extraordinarily blasphemous. But someone had to say what a good fraction of the rest of the world is thinking.

(1) Cultural variation seems to shift magnitudes but not rank ordering. That is, it does not appear to be a large enough factor to make Northeast Asian descent individuals in country X commit more crime than sub-Saharan African descent individuals in country Y. At least, I couldn't find any examples of this for any (X, Y) pair in the world, but perhaps you can.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#150
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to quote Feynman too, but a different part: This question of trying to figure out whether a book is good or bad by looking at it carefully or by taking the reports of a lot of people who looked at it carelessly is like this famous old problem: Nobody was permitted to see the Emperor of China, and the question was, What is the length of the Emperor of China’s nose? To find out, you go all over the country…

It strikes me as a theory with very poor explanatory power. We've seen many crises in the US as well, and Katrina was an exception . There have been a couple of others within my lifetime, but it's not politically correct to point out what similarities they may have. (I suppose I should point out this isn't a veiled reference to race , it's actually 100% cultural , but it's still not politically correct to discuss.) I…

If you can't even talk about the looting because of political correctness, then political correctness is part of the problem and not the solution.
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