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Coinbase will be a remote-first company

blog.coinbase.com

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Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#141

Post by lstodd »

raverbashing wrote: post #90
lstodd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time. This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. Purging office bullshit from your life requires some changes in lifestyle, no question about it. The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to b…

> The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to be satisfied sy some other means. > Still, work from anywhere And this is the contradiction I find hard to manage. Not saying it's impossible, more in the "not sure how to do it" Good equipment is important. A nice desk is important. If you're hopping over AirBnbs, it's hard t…

Well, obviously couchsurfing doesn't mesh well with a polished and lovely dedicated workspace. That's not the point.

The point is that remote work allows you to carve out that lovely workplace just about anywhere as opposed to being forced to some arbitrary and thus by definition suboptimal location.

I just rent houses in nice places by a sea. Mediterranean usually, but also Goa and Caribbean and whatnot. I think the shortest strech was two months or so. Median is about a year or two. At these time scales moving 30kg or so of equipment isn't much of a problem.

A desk and a chair - now that I prefer to DIY, desk from some local wood stock, chair - take a nice leather auto seat from some local auto salvage shop, mount it on an office chair's base. Done in an evening, costs almost nothing, much superior to every overpriced office chair, usually given away when I move out.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#142

Post by filmgirlcw »

partyboat1586 wrote: post #136
filmgirlcw wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I see a lot is introverted or ambiverted people tricked into believing their work buddies will call after they leave the company. Tricked into spending time on this shallowness outside of work hours + commute time over spending time with the people in their lives that really matter and will be there for them in darker times. I’m sorry you’ve apparently had bad experiences (and I’m trying really hard to be char…

I'm not taking about myself. I don't have any trouble making friends and I'm not introverted. Also using that as a jab is... well we will get to that. I'm talking for people I've known who were in this situation because they won't talk about it themselves... Because they are introverted they are only going to talk about it with people they are close to. I've been close with a lot of introverted people because I love…

> You seem to think that introverted people are not as good as everyone else because they struggle to make friends. That is fucked up. That is the kind of shit they deal with all the time and you wonder why so many introverts have social anxiety.

No, that’s absolutely not what I said or even insinuated. To be very clear, there is absolutely no value judgment on being an introvert or an extrovert. Instead, I think people who undermine and write-off people who appreciate being around others as superficial and “surface” (like you have repeatedly), are assholes trying to overcompensate for something. You don’t know me and I don’t know you. I’m not a classic extrovert. I’m definitely comfortable around people and probably come across as a typical extrovert, but I’m perfectly happy being alone and had to work extremely hard as a child to be be more comfortable around others. And I’ve had diagnosed anxiety (sometimes so crippling I couldn’t pick up the phone and call to order pizza and at times couldn’t even leave my house), since I was 6 years old — so you can fuck right off with the insinuation that only introverts have social anxiety or that they are even remotely linked. They aren’t. So stop with the straw man arguments.

Remote or in-person, if you want to build an actual friendship with someone — whether they are a coworker or not — it takes work on both sides. Most of the people we call “friends” at various times in our lives will not be around for prolonged periods of time — just as most of us won’t be on beck and call to a person they went to school with 20 years ago and only interact with as much as liking the occasional Facebook post. That has absolutely nothing to do with remote work.

Those “close friends” you speak of for introverts — a not insignificant portion of those friendships were absolutely built at work.

You’re the one putting negative value judgments on those who dare opine that they enjoy having an office because they like to engage with others by undermining and dismissing their relationships — not me.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#143

Post by partyboat1586 »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #142
partyboat1586 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not taking about myself. I don't have any trouble making friends and I'm not introverted. Also using that as a jab is... well we will get to that. I'm talking for people I've known who were in this situation because they won't talk about it themselves... Because they are introverted they are only going to talk about it with people they are close to. I've been close with a lot of introverted people because I love…

> You seem to think that introverted people are not as good as everyone else because they struggle to make friends. That is fucked up. That is the kind of shit they deal with all the time and you wonder why so many introverts have social anxiety. No, that’s absolutely not what I said or even insinuated. To be very clear, there is absolutely no value judgment on being an introvert or an extrovert. Instead, I think peo…

>You’re the one putting negative value judgments on those who dare opine that they enjoy having an office because they like to engage with others by undermining and dismissing their relationships — not me.

I specifically said I'm in the camp of wanting to work in an office and enjoying those connections and relationships. Did you miss that part? What am I missing here?

I don't want to devalue extroverted people! I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else for liking to make more connections with people.

I think I must have triggered you with the word 'shallow' lots of extroverted people (including me in the past) get triggered by that word because they know they are not shallow on the inside. I'm not calling you or other extroverted people shallow or superficial because you like to spend time around people. I should know because people have accused me of the same. What I am saying is that on average extroverted people have more friends and acquaintances than introverted people and spend more time with people they don't know that well. And most importantly that extroverted people have the energy to do that and derive energy from that.

Introverted people loose energy by spending time around people they are not close to. Building relationships requires more energy for them. This is why remote working because work does consist of many shallow (can't think of another way to put it) relationships and that is draining on an introverted person if those relationships don't have a long term trajectory.

I'm also not saying that extroverted people can't have social anxiety. They can. 100% and it can be even worse.

What I am saying is the reason that introverts have more social anxiety on average is because people judge them for being introverted. Because they have less of themselves to give. It sounded very much like that was what you were doing in your previous post by first assuming I was introverted and then directly attacking me for 'strugling to make friends'. A trait of many introverted people. I fail to see how that is not a value judgement against introverts. It came across as very cruel and mocking.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#144

Post by Cookingboy »

partyboat1586 wrote: post #85
Cookingboy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What I say is that _if_ they would have changed their lifestyle _then_ they would not have craved the office experience. I can say the same thing about WFH. If you have made the lifestyle adjustment then you wouldn't crave to be working remotely either. Btw I don't know what kind of lifestyle adjust you were thinking about that can magically change someone's personality or family situation. >If they chose not to it'…

Your work buddys today will be gone tomorrow. Most work relationships are shallow and transitory. If that's your thing because you're extroverted then great but a lot of people in tech are more ambiverted or introverted, they value deeper more meaningful relationships. What I see a lot is introverted or ambiverted people tricked into believing their work buddies will call after they leave the company. Tricked into sp…

>Your work buddys today will be gone tomorrow

Nope, still friends with many of them after years I've left the company.

>If that's your thing because you're extroverted then great but a lot of people in tech are more ambiverted or introverted, they value deeper more meaningful relationships.

I've cultivated deep and meaningful relationships through work, just like I did it through school as well.

It sounds like you are projecting your person experience onto everyone to be honest. I'm sorry that you have not established any real and meaningful relationships through work, but the same isn't true for many of us.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#145

Post by Cookingboy »

lstodd wrote: post #82
Cookingboy wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was quiet, nice food and much socializing towards the evening. What's not to like? To me the smell of alcohol would be awful? Or maybe I don't like noisy strangers ? Or maybe I can't bring my comfortable chair and twin 30" monitors to a pub with me every day? I think you've fallen pretty deep in the trap of thinking your experience and preference applies to everyone.

Please cut the ad hominems. I'm merely showing that there is life and work without an office, and better one much of the time. Yes I prefer twin monitors, two black cats, zero interruptions and some ambient music most of the time. When I get in the other mood, I go sit at the pub. Or I take a walk and meditate on a problem. Or I take a 50 mile ride on a motorbike. Or I fire up the local equivalent of the Uber and giv…

>I'm merely showing that there is life and work without an office, and better one much of the time.

Better for who? Everything you described as "better" doesn't sound that way to me at all. What makes your opinion objectively correct?

>Those are the choices I would never have had I made a mistake and got another job at the office.

Good for you! It honestly sounds like you'd be a pretty terrible person to work with in a team, remote or not.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#146

Post by rainyMammoth »

dannyw wrote: post #46
rainyMammoth wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Offices are made to be productive I would invite you to revisit that assumption. Offices are made to FEEL productive. Who decides on getting an office? All the research shows that open spaces are a huge fad and make people on average less productive (for work that require deeper stretch of concentration). > Am I the only one that misses drinks with my colleagues, or dinner at a local restaurant after work? I am mis…

Open offices cost less. Real estate in SF, NYC, etc are incredibly expensive. So is that really a surprise?

You are making my point. If offices were made to be productive, open offices would NOT be a thing.

The fact that companies still pay $$$ for an office in the bay area is for management purposes and making sure that employees are "buts in seats" for 40+ hours a week

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#147

Post by partyboat1586 »

Cookingboy wrote: post #144
partyboat1586 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your work buddys today will be gone tomorrow. Most work relationships are shallow and transitory. If that's your thing because you're extroverted then great but a lot of people in tech are more ambiverted or introverted, they value deeper more meaningful relationships. What I see a lot is introverted or ambiverted people tricked into believing their work buddies will call after they leave the company. Tricked into sp…

>Your work buddys today will be gone tomorrow Nope, still friends with many of them after years I've left the company. >If that's your thing because you're extroverted then great but a lot of people in tech are more ambiverted or introverted, they value deeper more meaningful relationships. I've cultivated deep and meaningful relationships through work, just like I did it through school as well. It sounds like you ar…

I have established real meaningful relationships through work as I'm sure most people do. What I'm saying is that many of your relationships at work will still be shallow even if a few are not. That is draining for introverts who also can't sustain the same number of relationships at once.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#148

Post by unsignedint »

Cookingboy wrote: post #7

I'm really curious, how many people actually prefer WFH permanently vs. just having the flexibility to WFH when wanted. If I wanted to stay home forever I'd have just taken a remote consulting job a long time ago, but I enjoy going to office and there is a lot of benefits that you don't get from being remote 100%. I've also made very good friends at work and I see my coworkers as much more than just another GitHub ac…

You are definitely not alone, I would be frustrated if not horrified if the WFH situation gets permanent.

Even physically, I find personally, it'll require quite bit of investment to make WFH viable/productive for it to be permanent, to have a permanent "work" room set up. Limited space shared with my personal computer and equipment are not very ideal for the productivity.

Still then, I would certainly prefer getting out of my place and working outside of my home.

It's one thing someone joins the company knowing that it's a remote job, I'm curious how people are adjusting to this change.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#149

Post by oskrim »

partyboat1586 wrote: post #85
Cookingboy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What I say is that _if_ they would have changed their lifestyle _then_ they would not have craved the office experience. I can say the same thing about WFH. If you have made the lifestyle adjustment then you wouldn't crave to be working remotely either. Btw I don't know what kind of lifestyle adjust you were thinking about that can magically change someone's personality or family situation. >If they chose not to it'…

Your work buddys today will be gone tomorrow. Most work relationships are shallow and transitory. If that's your thing because you're extroverted then great but a lot of people in tech are more ambiverted or introverted, they value deeper more meaningful relationships. What I see a lot is introverted or ambiverted people tricked into believing their work buddies will call after they leave the company. Tricked into sp…

I've established a significant portion of my important friendships through work.

I think it happens more easily in smaller companies for sure. Big corporations seem more hollow.

Re: Coinbase will be a remote-first company

#150

Post by annot888888 »

Cookingboy wrote: post #59
lstodd wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 3) all of them are desperately looking forward to going into the office again for any sort of time. This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. Purging office bullshit from your life requires some changes in lifestyle, no question about it. The workplace has to be established, distractions (much less than what is in the office, but still) have to be managed. Social needs have to b…

>This basically means that they did not modify their lifestyle for remote work. I really can't understand how one can be this shallow minded. Maybe the life style required to make remote work effective is not the desirable lifestyle for everyone? Maybe people value different things in life? Or maybe some people actually enjoy the place of their work and the physical presence of their coworkers? >Purging office bullsh…

Why can’t you take the post of others as exactly what you’re saying: that person’s opinion on office life?

Why continue engaging in a circular argument about individual preferences if you’re saying it’s subjective?

If it’s subjective why must a norm either way be a thing? Isn’t that putting pressure on people that DON’T want office culture?

You’re the one making how they phrased a comment a blanket statement. I’m inferring it as their personal preference alone. Detach from semantics and literally perceive it as another person typing text into a box.

It’s silly to expect everyone to language in a vague way so as not to appear too opionated based upon your sensibilities.

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