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TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#141
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSMC's fab is in Taiwan, not PRC. Given the critical nature of semiconductors, if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved. TSMC is Taiwan's largest company.

> if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved. It's pretty much impossible to see the US getting involved. The UN doesn't recognize Taiwan as an independent country, so China would just be exercising their authority over a chinese company, just like they do with Huawei, Lenovo, and many others. NATO couldn't help either, because the US is not being militarily attacked by this. And well, the U…

> Europe, Russia, South Korea, Japan, South America, the Middle east, Australia, ... they would all stand by China.

Are, you a shill? You think Japan would side with CCP over Taiwan? Have you no understanding at all of reality and Japan / Taiwan relations?

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#142

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

What is more important to me, is 9-9-6, ecology, and the culture China tries to bring to the modern world. We have some rights for the middle class in both US and Europe. It's not perfect but it's so much better comparing even to 50 years ago, don't even try to compare now and 150 years ago. China is a treat to this lifestyle. It pushes us centuries back where regular people are just a source for monsters like Tencent.

I have a friend who worked in Tencent an iconic Chinese IT company that owns WeChat. They work from 9 to 9, six days a week. This is not an option. It's mandatory.

She literally escapes to the US because been a single woman in the early 30s considered a very bad misdo in their society. The same rule doesn't apply for man btw. So you as young female pushed to work 9-9-6 and do a very bad choice very early because you have to do it before 30, otherwise you're considered a renegade. Their society is an extremely racist and sexist to the point where their own parents don't want to talk to you if you're a woman who doesn't want to mary a Han-Chinese person( a title nationality in China).

I don't believe that scientists of the western world that put their life for a breakthrough in Computer science, agriculture, medicine, etc... dedicate their life for this kind of society where humanity is just a bio-mechanism that has one day off to clean the room and recover a bit. No social life... nothing. It's a huge gap. While the western world is debating about 4 days of work week china is double down on 9-9-6 which anti-human. You might remember GitHub issue with software developers complains about it and how china tried to stop this "leak" So no matter how stupid it's sound. It's a free world with the neo-feodal country as it is.

You vote for that with your money. Right now is a tipping point they either slow down and the CCP will collapse in a natural way or they will be ruling the world means their way to do business one day might apply to you.

I'm not trying to idealize US or any other country. EU seems to be much more socialistic, Canada seems to be much more inclusive ( at least Toronto). EU is putting so much more money into green energy compared to the US. But this competition is a much better direction rather than what Chinese leadership offers. Racism, sexism, neglecting ecology impact, no human rights, no socialism in any form, no rule of law. Don't get messed with US wrong things.

You have so many reasons to hate Donald and what he's doing but that doesn't automatically make his opponents saint. In fact, Donald will disappear in 0.5 or 4 years. And the threat to the middle-class people's lifestyle because of China and CCP will not.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US recognizes Taiwan, doesn't that make even less sense? On the one hand you're saying that Taiwan is sovereign, on the other hand you're saying, we the US call the shots.

How is recognizing Taiwan as a sovereign country that it is, saying that we are the ones calling the shots? The one China doctrine is a stupid attempt to save face. It's China throwing a tantrum. It's high time we stop putting up with such childish behavior, don't you think?

[deleted]

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#144
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSMC's fab is in Taiwan, not PRC. Given the critical nature of semiconductors, if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved. TSMC is Taiwan's largest company.

> if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved. It's pretty much impossible to see the US getting involved. The UN doesn't recognize Taiwan as an independent country, so China would just be exercising their authority over a chinese company, just like they do with Huawei, Lenovo, and many others. NATO couldn't help either, because the US is not being militarily attacked by this. And well, the U…

Regarding the UN, China has veto so UN can do nothing.

Even if the UN is just a “condemnation” paper tiger unless a world power is pushes and does the heavy lifting

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#145
post #116

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

There is the question of the long term effect of policies like even just threatening to block major Chinese actors thanks to doubtful instruments (the US is basically the only power that attempts and manages to rule the world by claiming and effectively constructing jurisdiction on everything that touches a US dollar, or any kind of tech that has even just minor relationship with the US). Meanwhile the China has alre…

Those actors exist only because China blocks US movies in their theaters to 10 a year(!!). US movie industry creates so-called joint movies with the only goal to avoid these quotas. That's how Chinese capital suddenly got access to US movie companies, Chinese actors start appearing in US movies.

It's a pretty much mafia move and has nothing to do with fair trade.

Somehow Korea managed to create best movie of the year without this mafia-style ruling. They use the weaknesses of regular people who want gains now.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#146
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it will be such a dramatic shift. It will be more of a middle ground IMO. The mega corporations of US will be regulated by the government just like it happens in China. And China will end up with more rights and transperancy like a democracy.

Probably off topic, but does democracy "guarantee" more rights and transparency?

The democratic process incentivises transparency. You want to make public all the good work you're doing and the opposition wants to discover all the bad you did so they could turn the people against you in next elections. And it also does guarantee more rights (although eventually) as history has already proven.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if China invaded Taiwan it's hard to see the US not getting involved. It's pretty much impossible to see the US getting involved. The UN doesn't recognize Taiwan as an independent country, so China would just be exercising their authority over a chinese company, just like they do with Huawei, Lenovo, and many others. NATO couldn't help either, because the US is not being militarily attacked by this. And well, the U…

Regarding the UN, China has veto so UN can do nothing. Even if the UN is just a “condemnation” paper tiger unless a world power is pushes and does the heavy lifting

> UN can do nothing

Exactly my point.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#148
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't China require any foreign company to be controlled by Chinese to get access to the Chinese market? I heard that they relaxed those restrictions a bit to appease the WTO but in practice are often still denying basic permits for foreign companies until they can show to have a ≥51% Chinese share.

> Didn't China require any foreign company to be controlled by Chinese to get access to the Chinese market? This has been explained like hundreds of times on HN. If you truly believe such nonsense, there are one simple question to ask - what Chinese business entity is control Microsoft/Apple/Intel when they enjoyed all those revenues from the Chinese market.

I don't know if it's legally required, but in China:

* Azure is provided by 21Vianet

* AWS is provided by Sinnet and NWCD

Generally speaking, serving the Chinese market is rather difficult as a foreign entity. My understanding is that unless you export more than 50% of the production value, you need to have a local partner. And even that's only allowed in certain industries.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#149

To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other. The problem starts when there is a massive asymmetry in the trade. China has completely blocked US services from Google to Uber, and gladly accepts manufacturing investment - Tesla Shanghai factory, Intel's Chengdu factory, etc. because the CCP knows that they will gain tremen…

> To preface, firstly - I am a supporter of free global trade and greater collaboration between countries to maximize the benefit of each other.

The problem starts when there is massive asymmetry in those countries in terms of human rights, worker protections, and environmental regulations.

Criticize the US all day (I certainly can), but compared to the Chinese single party dictatorship the US is massively better in all those areas. The EU is even better than the US in some.

Occupational safety, environmental laws, and a free and open society imposes costs on business in the form of higher wages and overhead. It's impossible -- repeat, impossible -- for businesses in countries that operate to those standards to compete in a "free trade" regime with businesses in countries that do not. It's even worse when said countries (like China) also subsidize their industries and implement protectionist asymmetrical trade policies of their own.

I am all for free trade between free countries to within some reasonable minimal standard for "free." Trade with totalitarian and lawless regimes should be heavily taxed.

The free world should form a trade pact among its members with heavy tariffs for imports from non members.

One way of implementing it would be penalties for wages below domestic median, carbon emissions, and human rights violations. Use those factors to calculate a score and impose tariffs accordingly.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#150
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Didn't China require any foreign company to be controlled by Chinese to get access to the Chinese market? This has been explained like hundreds of times on HN. If you truly believe such nonsense, there are one simple question to ask - what Chinese business entity is control Microsoft/Apple/Intel when they enjoyed all those revenues from the Chinese market.

I know that HN is living in a bubble but you realize that there are more industries besides tech and FAANG? Car manufacturers and their thousands of suppliers for example. Wikipedia says regarding Volkswagen in China: > In 1984, Volkswagen signed a 25-year contract to make passenger cars in Shanghai. Since, at that time, vehicle manufacturers could not own a majority stake in a manufacturing plant, Volkswagen's ventu…

> Car manufacturers and their thousands of suppliers for example.

How come people are not aware of this? Did Tesla have to give up controlling ownership to set up a plant in China?

https://europe.autonews.com/article/20180417/COPY/304179943/...

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