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U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

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Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#141

Post by rdtwo »

neuronic wrote: post #100
toomuchtodo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it's still above 0, which means you should be forced to source local talent before you're permitted to source from outside the country. It's so strange to me that this viewport is controversial, but "Buy Local" (which I have yet to encounter someone who is against supporting local businesses) is not. This is the labor version of "Buy Local".

Why does it mean that? Just enact a law that requires equal payment for immigrants and locals. The competition should be solely on skill and its a disgrace that companies are allowed to hire H1-Bs to save money. Corporations need to be regulated to hell, it's been proven over and over.

Honestly you should have yo pay a premium for foreign workers. If you can’t hire a local to pick fruit at minimum wage then you have to pay a Mexican temp worker more to do the same job. The H1b worker should be in the top 20% of the pay scale not the bottom 20% if they are that good salaries should reflect that.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#142

Post by JackPoach »

digizeph wrote: post #140
JackPoach wrote: post #40

I think this is quite good in a strange way. Nobody was happy about H1-B. Tech companies were complaining that quotas were too low. Skilled workers complained that this is a ploy to keep costs down, especially in academia. I've once heard an American PhD say 'I am not afraid of competing with very smart Chinese or Indian scientists. But they are making me compete with 10 mediocre Chinese or Indian PhDs and nobody can…

I agree that this whole thing could end up being good for people stuck in the current system. Personally, US immigration path has become so much less reasonable comparing to Canada's. Hostility is the word I'd describe the system in US. On another topic, the American PhD's quote doesn't make sense without context. Why "mediocre" scientists are the issue for scientific "competition"? The proportion of top people is al…

Well, you can google Eric Weinstein and read his opinion on H1B as far as academia goes. This Eric Weinstein - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Weinstein

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#144

Post by Traster »

curiousllama wrote: post #130
Traster wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not straight out saying you're wrong, but I don't see the evidence that this is obviously true. There's an equally compelling line of logic that by removing H1-B visas you create less supply for those jobs in the US, driving up wages for local workers and encouraging more local people to train up to take those jobs - because of the higher rewards. Will companies just immediately decide to hire in another country?…

I recently worked as a consultant doing back office talent sourcing work. It is a stated, explicit ambition in the industry to offshore & automate as much work as humanly possible. You're thinking, reasonably, that companies aren't going to go through the trouble of immediately opening a whole office in Bangalore for a few QA testers. You're right. They're either going to (1) offshore to an MSP (2) automate or (3) ju…

The obvious answer is that the companies that have their QA in Penang fairly quickly learn that the 7,500 engineers in Penang that you got for the price of 20 engineers in the US not only don't do the QA correctly, they're actively making the quality worse by DDOSing the engineers in the US with jira tickets. Then you find out that the senior management outsourced core activities to Penang, and before you know it you're on 14nm++++++ and angry US engineers are being forced to fly to Penang and figure it out, and the CEO is being blackmailed into a resignation using an office affair as a pretext.

May have gotten a bit too specific with my hypothetical there.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#145

Post by throwaway3neu94 »

rdtwo wrote: post #141
neuronic wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it mean that? Just enact a law that requires equal payment for immigrants and locals. The competition should be solely on skill and its a disgrace that companies are allowed to hire H1-Bs to save money. Corporations need to be regulated to hell, it's been proven over and over.

Honestly you should have yo pay a premium for foreign workers. If you can’t hire a local to pick fruit at minimum wage then you have to pay a Mexican temp worker more to do the same job. The H1b worker should be in the top 20% of the pay scale not the bottom 20% if they are that good salaries should reflect that.

H1B's already need to exceed the prevailing wage, as determined by DoL.

You can argue about where they actually end up, but it's not the bottom 20%. Esp once you figure in immigration related overheads (that's staff, not just fees and travel).

Higher salaries for H1B's would require the right to change jobs easily, unlike now where there's a tremendous risk. And then there's L1's, who have no negotiation power at all.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#146

Post by lmz »

jefurii wrote: post #112
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years in the U.S.? I thought the path to citizenship or green card was 5 years, or 7 years at most? This is really not a very fair system.

I have an Indian dev friend who's here on an H1B in exactly the situation that KorematsuFred describes. H1B is just a more sophisticated "Gentlemen's Agreement" (a racist way of using Asian peoples' labor while denying them the benefits of citizenship).

And yet knowing this, they still come. Why?

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#147

Post by JamalW »

xwdv wrote: post #31

Good. H-1B is an exploitative system that forces people into something resembling modern slavery, at the cost of American jobs and business opportunities. People who are against this IMO, are mostly concerned with not appearing “racist” or xenophobic in any way. Virtue signal.

You hit the nail on the head. Virtue signaling has become an epidemic here in the US. Hopefully, greater minds will prevail as people begin to rely more on the internet for their educational resources.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#148

Post by throwaway3neu94 »

lmz wrote: post #146
jefurii wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an Indian dev friend who's here on an H1B in exactly the situation that KorematsuFred describes. H1B is just a more sophisticated "Gentlemen's Agreement" (a racist way of using Asian peoples' labor while denying them the benefits of citizenship).

And yet knowing this, they still come. Why?

Different reasons for different people. Some combination of:

* It's better than the alternative, and it can be made to work, since once I140 is approved you can renew H1 indefinitely (unless sth goes wrong, like right now, but that's a risk that doesn't look so big initially when all is still well).

* The wait only became this bad around 2008 or so. At the time, nobody knew there wouldn't be a realistic chance to get to gc. A lot of people have been in the system since that time.

* It doesn't always start with wanting to move to the US permanently. You go to a US college, or move for a job in the US (maybe the company you've already been part of offered it, maybe not), thinking it'd temporary. Then you build a life, make friendships, and realize you want to stay.

* Or maybe your parents moved when you are a kid and the US is all you know. But when you turn 18, it's F1/OPT/H1 or go to a foreign country (that you happen to be a citizen of, but have no real relationship with).

Above are all real examples I personally know.

Also, while for non-Indian immigrants it is at least possible to get a gc eventually, this is also by no means certain. Very stressful as well.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#149

Post by [deleted] »

screye wrote: post #126

Genuine question for anti-H1B people on this thread. Do you think there should be a pathway to immigration for someone not from the US ? (Not just Indians/Chinese) _______________________________________________________ Because honestly, there really isn't any at all. If all work visas are supposed to not have a pathway to citizenship. Then how is someone supposed to make it in ? The diversity PR ? Which is almost ex…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#150

Post by throwaway3neu94 »

dudul wrote: post #71
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10 years in the U.S.? I thought the path to citizenship or green card was 5 years, or 7 years at most? This is really not a very fair system.

Each queue is managed by country of origin. Last time I read about it, each country would get, at most, 7% of the available GCs. What is more fair? A guy from Island waiting 20 years because he is stuck behind 1 billion Indians? Or Indians waiting longer because more of their nationals are applying? Honestly, I don't know, but I know the 7% rule is justified. The idea is to avoid massive inbound diaspora that would b…

The problem is not just the per country limit, but also that the total number of greencards available hasn't been updated in decades to keep up with the significant US and worldwide population growth, effectively reducing chances to get one.

Also, EB1/2/3 wasn't supposed to do diversity, that's what the diversity lottery is for.

Also, the limit could've been applied to visas instead of greencards. I don't see how keeping people in limbo inside the US for decades/lifetimes is reasonable. If they are here de facto permanently anyway, they should get a path to citizenship. A two-class society is wrong.

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