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Valve drops VR support for macOS

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Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#141

Post by throw_away »

wilg wrote: post #133
est31 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. No cross platform builds allowed. This is SO annoying. I can cross compile to Windows from GNU/Linux quite easily. In fact with Wine I can even get MSVC running. But Apple, even though they employ many of the Clang/LLVM developers, believes that you must use their OS to target any Apple product. Your only reprieve outside of buying their extremely expensive hardware is using CI services like Travis or Github act…

I think Unity does it (sort of). But yea...

I thought it just popped out an Xcode project for mac/ios builds.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#142

Post by mekanicalsyncop »

ascom wrote: post #137
p1necone wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's disappointing - I've never used a Mac but the first thing I do on new Windows PCs is turn off "enhance pointer precision" (mouse acceleration) in control panel. It's awful for anything where you have to aim, I can't imagine gaming on a system with mouse acceleration that can't be disabled.

FPS games typically use raw input, which bypasses any acceleration settings in the OS. This works on both Windows and macOS, assuming the game is properly written. This is why I insist on keeping mouse acceleration enabled since it helps with everyday computing tasks and has no effect on at least the games I normally play. Regarding the comment above, it is definitely possible there are subtle configuration differenc…

Getting rid of Mac OS's acceleration isn't simply a matter of clicking "raw input" in a game's options.

Even if you use the command line to actually disable it for some reason the mouse still feels off.

If you google, for example "counterstrike mac os raw input" or something similar, you'll see lots of posts about people having the same issue. The raw input setting doesn't work properly. Granted the posts are from a couple years ago. The last time I tried to play a game on a Mac was probably around 2018. I tried every workaround I could find on the internet and it was still terrible.

What I described has nothing to do with a difference of sensitivity or polling rate/dpi. Although if a person is unfamiliar with those things they could have an issue with them.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#143

Post by zwirbl »

mrtksn wrote: post #122
IntelMiner wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's more a factor of having a large install base than actively courting or targeting "gamers"

Apple actually has a gaming platform called Apple Arcade and gaming is a separate and prominent category in the App Store. They do "game of the day" and editorials all the time, there's a platform called Game Center that can be used as an account between devices and a place to keep scores. Their graphics performance on iPhones has been top of the line for many years now, they always boost about the graphics performan…

Get the graphics support on their desktop platforms/OS to a usable level again? I barely play on mobile because most of the games I find there are either shallow or don't work as good with touch screens

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#144

Post by speedgoose »

rajlego wrote: post #125
est31 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. No cross platform builds allowed. This is SO annoying. I can cross compile to Windows from GNU/Linux quite easily. In fact with Wine I can even get MSVC running. But Apple, even though they employ many of the Clang/LLVM developers, believes that you must use their OS to target any Apple product. Your only reprieve outside of buying their extremely expensive hardware is using CI services like Travis or Github act…

You could build a hackintosh instead. Pain to get software set up just right but when it is it works great.

It's too time consuming and risky for a company.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#145

Post by jfkebwjsbx »

ashtonkem wrote: post #23
Danieru wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, new machines can have decent GPUs. Except the install base is where your game will be played. Thus the average matters.

The install base of your buyer matters, not the install base of Apple. I doubt that the average MacBook Air buyer is the average Mac video gamer, and I bet that MBPs are over represented in Mac video game uses.

I would bet otherwise. Most gamers are casual and casual games usually run on integrated GPUs.

Only top-end MBPs are half decent for gaming anyway.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#146

Post by baby »

ashtonkem wrote: post #19

I remain skeptical of the long term viability of VR; I’m old enough to remember when 3D TVs and monitors were going to change the face of both TV and video games, and yet here we are. I priced out VR recently and I was unimpressed with the price per value available, with most systems adding $500-$1,000 to my gaming system’s cost, and some requiring that I modify my room to work properly. And that’s not even accountin…

> I’m old enough to remember when 3D TVs and monitors were going to change the face of both TV and video games

but 3D TV and movies were pretty bad... It was always a gimmick. The experience you get in VR is nothing like that.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#147

Post by wtallis »

dgellow wrote: post #130
wtallis wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't that long ago that gaming consoles were being sold at an astonishing loss, to be made up on services subscription revenue. They're mostly not loss leaders anymore, but the hardware sales are definitely not responsible for significant profits. Video game console hardware has lower margins than gaming PC components, which are already a very low-margin market segment (except where companies can get away with a…

They branded their Apple TV as a game platform. It has a controller that looks like a console gamepad and is one of the target platform of Apple Arcade.

That's obviously not in the same league. The gaming capabilities of Apple TV are still pretty much an afterthought. The games available are more likely to be ports from smartphones, not Xbox/PS platforms. The processing power is a small fraction of what a video game console or gaming PC requires, which is why Apple can use leftover old smartphone SoCs instead of having to invest in actual high-end chips for the device.

There's the potential for the Apple TV to become a serious gaming platform in the future, but it would require a major shift in product strategy from Apple. That shift would have to include putting much more expensive hardware inside the Apple TV, increasing the BOM by more than the current retail price.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#148

Post by jfkebwjsbx »

olliej wrote: post #49
Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

What things have have Macs had in terms on non-backwards compatibility? Genuinely curious here - don’t say 32 bit, they released the last desktop Mac OS that ran on 32bit hardware more than a decade ago. (I’m not saying that I disagree with some of the other issues)

32 bits was dropped this year, not a decade ago. That killed hundreds of macOS games.

Another major issue is broken OpenGL: bad drivers, very old version and nowadays deprecated.

In 2010 macOS gaming was in a good spot. Nowadays, Apple is making sure you don't use Macs for games.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#149

Post by speedgoose »

ashtonkem wrote: post #107
tracerbulletx wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come back after you played HL: Alyx, Beat Saber, and No Man's Sky VR. Any one of these experiences is proof that VR is a huge deal.

I’m not floating that much money to try a game, and I’m unaware of anyone in my social circles who owns any level of headset. “Go spend a few hundred to prove the value” is a hard sell.

So you haven't tried VR?

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#150

Post by jfkebwjsbx »

eschaton wrote: post #99
kroltan wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just run macOS on a VM As far as I know it is against the terms of service to run Mac OS on non-Apple hardware, so you can't just run a macOS VM. > Hardware isn't horrible from Apple. It's just more expensive for macOS. Is that not the same thing, effectively? For a given buying power, a player that chooses mac will have objectively poorer hardware. Yes, there are a few capable rigs for Apple systems, but they are…

When games are targeted to the Macs potential users have, they have always sold reasonably well. Back when the Mac market was far smaller, and it was much more difficult to develop a game, developers did OK. If you start with the premise that you should just barely achieve 60fps with all effects enabled on this year’s top-of-the-line PC video card you’re artificially constraining your market. Make your game fun and m…

What you ask is basically impossible: most Macs sold only have an integrated GPU, while all major platforms (gaming PCs, Xbox, PS...) do have dedicated GPUs. This means the performance is not even comparable.

Targeting macOS is only feasible for simple/casual games and some eSports.

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