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What is interesting about Factorio

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Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#141

I found > There's gotta be some innate machine-focused "interest in things" that this is tapping. I've never taken apart or rebuilt a machine, but this gets me anyway. fairly sad. Factorio is fun, but it's a pale shadow of the experience of making even relatively simple machines work better or differently. Even getting a 2-stroke motor that has a dirty filter running again is immensely satisfying.

I find just the opposite, myself. It is not satisfying to clean a gunked up carb or change a dirty filter or spark plug. To me it feels like irritating drudgery I am forced to undertake because of the physical limitations of reality that cause these problems. Abstract "machines" and systems built from them like factories in factorio or software do not degrade, they do not get dirty, they do not wear. I can focus entirely on creating solutions to problems rather than constantly going back and doing boring routine maintenance on something I already had working.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#142

> Isn't it amazing that someone could do something for 100 hours and not think about obvious improvements, and not even wonder if they've been setup? I have co-workers like this: people who don't bother to learn the tools of* their trade and waste dozens of minutes every day. Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit and, at the risk of sounding inflammatory, is the type of activity that creates "…

> Taking the time to master your tools is a COMPOUNDING benefit

this is problematic, and the problem is made obvious when you take this fact to its natural conclusion.

are you juggling credit cards to simultaneously maximize the benefits of opening new cards with promotional offers, limiting your interest rates, and maximizing your credit score?

have you investigated the air quality of your working and living spaces? do you know the optimal concentrations of O2 and CO2? do you have plants around you that provide other benefits besides air quality? do you even know what those compounding benefits are?

what about your spinal posture? do you know about wrist shoulder hip and knee angles? do you know how this impacts bloodflow and neuromuscular activation? maybe you just run and/or stretch for 30 minutes a day and call it good enough?

> I have co-workers like this: people who don't bother to learn

no matter how smart you are, youve got finite bandwidth and a finite time to spend it. everyone picks most things they dont bother to learn.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#143
post #6

As someone that stopped playing games in university, I've found it weirdly hard to get back into games many years later. Factorio seems like the type of game I would've liked as a teenager, but now it just feels like work to me. As do most interesting games. It seems like there's a learning curve to games that I don't want to spend the time dealing with anymore.

As someone who has recently got back into games, Factorio is a ton of work—and I love strategy games like Civilization. Playing Factorio is not unlike doing engineering work itself. Initially, I was hooked. After a while, the brainpower it takes to build and refactor large factories felt too demanding. It began to feel more like work, than enjoyment.

Definitely. The article is pretty subjective; I'd say there are lots of glaring flaws in Factorio. I played it for a while, stopped when I hit a major problem, but when I came back the game had changed quite a bit and I couldn't get back into it.

Flaws of Factorio in no specific order:

• The car has maddeningly terrible physics. The OP claims this yields "comic fun". It doesn't. It just means you're constantly crashing into trees and needing to repair the car.

• At some point I hit a biter nest I couldn't beat, couldn't go around (some sort of story based misson). There was NO way past this obstacle. No way to make the game easier, no way to beat them, I was even reduced to looking for cheat codes or ways to hack the game files (there weren't any). So I just dropped the game. The sudden cliff-edge in difficulty made no sense and felt like they hadn't play-tested their own game properly.

• The GUI is terrible. I have no idea why he thinks it's good.

1. Placing rails is an exercise in frustration because it's so easy to mis-align things and end up with two pieces of rail that don't quite line up, forcing you to then dig it all up and try again.

2. Placing signals and stations is an equally frustrating exercise in finicky nitpicking. There are lots of ways to set up a railway line such that it simply doesn't work, with no hints about why or what you did wrong. It feels like debugging an embedded system.

3. The article cites "TIL I learned a shortcut" being a meme - that's because the GUI doesn't help you learn any shortcuts.

4. The icons are very small yet high detail, making them difficult to distinguish sometimes. There's no way to zoom anything to make this better. The colour schemes are washed out. The art is just unattractive.

• Randomly generated maps mean you may often end up with an unusual shortage of resources, or things in weird locations.

• The core mechanic is extremely hard to actually improve at. Although I enjoyed making factories at first, I pretty quickly realised this was too much like programming to actually be enjoyable long term. Factories quickly end up drowning in 'tech debt' if you aren't experienced, so you're constantly tempted to restart levels and try again to make a more sustainable factory, but then you end up stuck again later when you obtain some new bit of tech and realise your factory is wrongly structured for the next part of the game again.

The article hints at this last problem. He says "As tempting as it is, don't restart a new factory when you want to rebuild. Just learn how to use bots to deconstruct, and fix it. It'll be more fun that way."

Er, great. And how do I learn how to use bots to do that? The game did eventually get a few half-hearted tutorials that I found actually more confusing than the game itself, but I don't recall any about bots. You quickly realise that most of the information you need to learn the game is on random user-written wikis.

Factorio has managed to get some market success despite being pretty badly built in many ways. I'd definitely recommend checking it out for the novel conveyer-belt mechanic, but if you like building games Cities: Skylines will be much more satisfying and a far more professionally built product.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#144
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a certain discipline to do that. Not everyone has that discipline, and not everyone cares about being the '10x engineer'. Especially not when they work a 9-5 job which pays the same regardless of being a 1x or 10x. I have been working for my own businesses for about 8 years now. I learned to value my time, so any improvement in efficiency is welcome. But sometimes you just need to get the job done and not in…

> Especially not when they work a 9-5 job which pays the same regardless of being a 1x or 10x. This is a failure of forethought on their part. It's true that their _current_ job might not pay more for that knowledge, but it absolutely pays off in their career and during interviews as they develop their professional network and people begin to recognize them as a source of in-depth knowledge.

I have better things to do in life than optimise my CRUD creation skills so I can be a source of knowledge for CRUD creation

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#145
Absolutely blown away by how good Factorio is, fiendishly addictive, seemingly endless possibilities.

I can see why it appeals to those with an engineering/tinkerers mindset.

Also from this post I just learned that Copy/Paste is a function in the game, _sigh_

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#146
post #6

As someone that stopped playing games in university, I've found it weirdly hard to get back into games many years later. Factorio seems like the type of game I would've liked as a teenager, but now it just feels like work to me. As do most interesting games. It seems like there's a learning curve to games that I don't want to spend the time dealing with anymore.

I understand the need to treat life as a dichotomy between work and play, but I feel you might have lost some of the magic of your childhood. For me it's the opposite, I hated complex games as a child but really enjoy them today. For me, the best feeling is working hard for something and really getting into the details and enjoying all the complexity of the experience / challenge. I think that most human beings are w…

Is your job stimulating or boring? I have a hard time expending energy learning to play games to solve fake problems, when I could be using that energy to solve real problems, including, as you note, my health. Also, raising my kids.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#147
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes a certain discipline to do that. Not everyone has that discipline, and not everyone cares about being the '10x engineer'. Especially not when they work a 9-5 job which pays the same regardless of being a 1x or 10x. I have been working for my own businesses for about 8 years now. I learned to value my time, so any improvement in efficiency is welcome. But sometimes you just need to get the job done and not in…

> Especially not when they work a 9-5 job which pays the same regardless of being a 1x or 10x. This is a failure of forethought on their part. It's true that their _current_ job might not pay more for that knowledge, but it absolutely pays off in their career and during interviews as they develop their professional network and people begin to recognize them as a source of in-depth knowledge.

I think my chances of getting a job might actually go down if I impress them too much with my peerless shortcut knowledge.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#149
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"all the inventory management is just super awkward with weird UI" That's funny, for me Factorio has one of the best and well-thought-out UI's I've ever seen in any game (especially for a game this complex).[1] [1] - With the exception of the circuit network, which is too easy to turn in to spaghetti code and a nightmare to debug.

Part of it, frankly is that I hate pixel art. Give me antialiasing and decent kerning, dammit!

Play Satisfactory then.

Re: What is interesting about Factorio

#150
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. Identifying energy traps - things you do when you have no energy but don't restore energy. Several examples: 1) Netflix, 2) social media, 3) reddit, 4) youtube So, do you avoid them now? If so, what do you do when you're tired after work? It's hard to feel entire afternoons with exercise, sleep and conversations...

Not the OP, but for me energy restoring activities are “active” ones, like hobbies where you create/build something. Working on a painting, photo, sculpting, writing, working on a side project, playing intelligent games with your dog, ... Passive activities, like consuming TV or Netflix or worse social networks, at least for me are draining my energy levels.

By they definition, isn't going to work an energy restoring activity?
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