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I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

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141–150 of 322 posts

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#141
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unnecessarily rude. Software is still the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years. The parallel still holds. Times will be hard relative to the recent peak, but compared to just about every other industry we'll still be pretty fat and happy. I know that's pretty thin consolation for people who are struggling to find jobs while their classmates from one year before were the subject of bidding wa…

> Software is still the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years. In a lot of the world it's nowhere near as well paid as most of the professions which have comparable requirements in terms of the amount academic study, vocational apprenticeship and natural aptitude needed.

Even in the U.S. I’m not sure where this myth of SWE being the most well paid industry comes from. Try many finance jobs and big law, also medicine in certain specializations. They all pay much better than 95% of all software engineering jobs. It’s also well known that to be an incredibly high paid SWE, you need to be at a large public tech company. That means you’re making a huge bet on their stock - the folks making bank there do so because their equity has appreciated massively. I think one reason for the pervasiveness of this myth is that engineers talk about the fact that they are paid well. Folks in other industries are much quieter about it.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#142
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

> without punishing failure Why not punish failure?

1. Because most people fail a lot in a lot of things.

2. Because failure often doesn't depend on you, and extremely often is at least partially dependent on external factors and context.

3. Because it's not that useful (psychologically) as opposed to other engagement approahces.

4. Because it can and will be misused to punish those who are disfavorable to the punishing establishment.

and last but not least:

5. Because the social systems which need to be in place in order to punish failure, and the ethos necessary for the punishers and for legitimization of the punishers' concrete acts, are themselves repressive to the general populace and make life a worse experience for everyone.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#143
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

> without punishing failure Why not punish failure?

>It's inhumane to oversee a system with the capability to feed and house its entire population and refuse to do so for procedural reasons. (Welfare gap, Section 8 waiting lists)

>The system does not dole out failure meritocratically, therefore the existence of a total failure state will mean earnest and reasonably industrious individuals will still fail by chance alone. (Rust belt)

>The official sanctioning of a failure state is the impetus for a black market safety net, where failure is precluded at the cost of rule of law. (Drug-dealing, prostitution, gang-controlled ghettoes)

It's a hole in the ship's hull.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#144
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Survivorship bias. Our system is broken, humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure. Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...This will be another generation of hopeless dreamers lost in the looming financial depression. Why is our antidote hope against the adversity of going against all the odds?. Congrats to those who made it but more recognition to those who failed and managed to over…

> without punishing failure Why not punish failure?

If you do, it shouldn't be:

>Failure shouln't be hunger and homelessness...

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#145
post #125
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish it was like that in the UK. I work with some pretty talented people and we're paid what would be considered peanuts in the bay area (but fairly standard here), and even then half of us have just been furloughed. Lots of code sucks but that's often due to unrealistic deadlines as much as the talents of the developers.

Code sucks everywhere. Unless you're working on a library or something personal, then there's no (or very few) organisations that are churning out 'academically pure' code. The UK doesn't software industry doesn't have dibs on that.

Some companies write code that's public, and then, while it might still suck, there is at least some motivation for improving it, and a better chance of it being paletable.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#146
post #132
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our system is broken Citation needed. > humanity needs a way to encourage success without punishing failure Serious question - why? You state this as an objective fact with no argument for it. > Failure [shouldn't] be hunger and homelessness If you're smart about it, it isn't. What's wrong with saying "yes you should probably have savings to fall back on in case this doesn't work out?" What's wrong with saying "if…

I think people are too quick to discount the importance of failure and feeling bad. If failing has no consequence, there will be far less motivation. However, in my opinion, this is a balance. Failure has to be sufficiently painful, but no more than that. From the research I’ve done, two major items have made failure too painful: stagnant wages and rapidly inflating rent prices. People can no longer hold onto savings…

How would unions help anything? Modern examples (such as teachers unions) seem to reward mediocrity and encourage paying into failing pensions

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#147
post #135

If you can’t read a hopeful, personal story without screaming “Survivorship Bias” and plunging headfirst into self-victimhood, good luck with the rest of your life!

I completely agree. There are alot of new graduates looking at the world saying "I'm screwed". No you're not! I've survived the dot com bust as a DBA, and both recent oil busts while working in energy. You too, will be great if you're reading this. We need more hope, more love, more encouragement right now. Be a part of the solution instead of more doom and gloom (and criticism).

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#148
post #79

Why do you guys assume that this crisis will hit software development? As far as I can see software development will be one of the fields least hit, possibly even benifiting, by the fallout of the Corona-virus.

Fields that will be hit: anything that relies on ad revenue, international or trans-national tourism and travel (badly), b&m retail (badly), online retail [1], entertainment [also 1], web support services, corporate web dev, real estate, fintech. Fields that may grow: medical services and support, small-scale short-distance tourism (after 6-12 months), small scale web dev, military spending, government support and co…

Tourism and travel will resurge in 2021, when people who missed this year's vacation (i.e. everyone) will book for the next summer.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#149

You graduated in one of the most well paid, expanding industry of the last 40 years and made it. Excellent.

$35,000/yr for a BSc is the most well paid? It was a different kind of collapse in 2001, there was little demand or reliance on online services.

Re: I graduated into the dot com bust as a programmer and made it – you will too

#150
post #9

I graduated from university at the exact moment the dot com bust occurred, and the job market went from fizzing to non-existent in the space of a few weeks. I ended up working at a local charity, and then entering into a business incubator but for a couple of years I had no money to speak of. If I felt rich, I'd have McDonalds for lunch. On the other hand, I was living in a cool part of town with a group of people wh…

I imagine its worse now with the Student debt bubble - too many people with 100k in student loans.

The people with 100k in student loans (non graduate degrees) were probably not on path towards financial greatness anyway. I can't imagine looking at all of the available schools in the world and choosing one that costs over 25k a year. If it wasn't student debt it'd be some other form
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