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Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

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Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#141
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then Alphabet risks that Hangout could become as good as Zoom & Slack combined. The golden rule is no Betabets by Alphabet.

It's frustrating because Google Hangouts used to be great, and then Google purposefully started cannibalizing their own platform. I really want to know what goes on within Product Management at Google, because looking from the outside in I cannot imagine anything other than sheer incompetence.

I worked at Google 2006-2010, and from where I sat, Google's biggest problems were (1) rapid erosion of corporate culture over that time frame and (2) weak project management.

A friend was managing a project on a shoestring budget. Upper management (C-suite) had reviewed the idea and green-lit it. He had been told Larry and Sergei in particular had voiced support. He got it done ahead of schedule and under budget by managing a stream of off-cycle interns. The week it was scheduled to go live, someone in middle management killed it. My friend and his team got zero credit for a job very well done, a big setback for him. He and I were working on an internal tool for datacenter management as a 20% project when I left. I asked him about it later, and our 20% project met a similar fate: enthusiastic support from management, including giving us some resources, all the way through completion, followed by cancellation shortly after completion. My friend left less than a year later.

Another friend started a modest improvement to chat as a 20% project, which later got expanded to a full-time project for several engineers. I forget the external name, but the internal code name was "Taco Town" after the SnL skit. Walkabout / Wave was a skunkworks project that used its separate repository, which was very rare at Google. People knew something mysterious was going on down in Australia, but we really had no idea what it was, other than the Google Maps guys were running it and it was named "Walkabout". When Walkabout / Wave came out of skunkworks mode shortly before external launch, the Taco Town team realized they needed to launch very soon or their project would never launch because its functionality was subsumed by Walkabout / Wave. Taco Town rushed its launch, was a bit buggy and had some scalability issues that they knew about, but expected to be able to improve shortly after launch. I think Taco Town's botched launch a few weeks before Walkabout/Wave contributed to initial confusion around Wave and some of Taco Town's problems colored perceptions of Wave's launch.

Shortly after I left, Google publicly announced they'd be putting "more wood behind fewer arrows", which was a step in the right direction.

I get it that management doesn't want to discourage engineers or stifle innovation, and they know they don't have a good handle on what will be successful and what won't, but keeping around zombie projects gives engineers false hope. The "throw mud at the wall and see what sticks" style of project management can be soul-crushing for talented junior people managing small projects, unless they're properly supported and really get proper credit for doing a very good job engineering something that fails for non-engineering reasons.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#142

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

I knew I would get downvoted. But folks seriously don’t remember the pain before Zoom. And the current pain anytime we have to use a GoToMeeting, Google Meet, Webex or other tool that barely functions. Human interaction that actually works right now is so important. And I simply have a hard time trusting another product to actually do the call reliably

Convenience ≠ Security

These two remove from one-another other.

Zoom just showcased this back to back to back to back in a few weeks time). They played tricks with the words. "we wrote ABC but what we really meant is XYZ" is a shitty response to any type of audit/scrutiny.

This is a public company. They have an Internal Audit. What the hell were these guys been auditing in security audits??? The color of the background????

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is the thing that all Zoom keys are kept and maintained in China. I wonder if this is not the main concern.

got a source for that claim? I work in IT and we use zoom and I have never read that in any article. not that we save anything from zoom that I need to be concerned about key storage for, but concerning nonetheless.

It’s not so much what you store, but what someone listening in on might be storing, or learning.

A number of our hospital customers were diving in head first with Zoom, but are now backing off. I am curious to hear if there is any legal fallout from any of this.

[1] https://theintercept.com/2020/04/03/zooms-encryption-is-not-...

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#144

God please don't make me use a non-zoom video conferencing tool! I have used about a dozen over the years in my role as a consultant, and Zoom has been by far the most reliable. I’m hopeful lots of good can come from the scrutiny, but please Zoom get your act together so I don’t have to use some other buggy thing that doesn’t actually work.

I knew I would get downvoted. But folks seriously don’t remember the pain before Zoom. And the current pain anytime we have to use a GoToMeeting, Google Meet, Webex or other tool that barely functions. Human interaction that actually works right now is so important. And I simply have a hard time trusting another product to actually do the call reliably

I share you pain using other products, I really do. I'm stuck with Skype for Business and Webex. However Zoom's attitude to security is unacceptable, and therefore I will not accept it. Full Stop. Every now and then I'm on a company call that, if made public, could do serious harm to the company. My children do video calls with their friends from their bedrooms without adult supervision. In neither of those scenarios am I willing to trust Zoom right now.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#145
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea what kind of unreliable networks people get to use, but WebEx has been quite good during the last 10 years.

So has Google Meet and Hangouts. So was Skype, when I used it about 5 years ago. Perhaps I'm just used to them as a remote worker, but they were never all that janky to begin with. Or, rather, more janky than the other tools available at the time.

Right. I've worked almost only remotely for several outfits over more than ten years although conveniently I am currently unemployed. I have used WebEx, Skype, Hangouts, Slack's built-in video conferencing, Zoom and I'm sure I'm forgetting others. If you have a sane setup all of these work fine.

I hadn't used Jitsi until this current situation meant friends wanted to "meet up" drunkenly on Friday evenings but it's the same.

The main obstacles are hardware. The cheapest correct working solution for a single individual participant is a headset and a webcam. Can you use lapel microphones, or (as two of my Youtube creator friends do for Friday evenings) sit in front of a huge professional microphone with filters? Yes, yes you can but that's not for most users. Can you plug a high-end SLR that's focused dead on you into a converter and stream that instead of a webcam? Yup, but again most people either don't own an SLR or don't want to set it up just so they can be a bit clearer and brighter when drunk.

And the thing about hardware is that we abstracted this away entirely. Zoom doesn't have different hardware support from Hangouts or Skype or any other tool.

"Which VC tool should we use for this meeting?" is a bike shed discussion at the best of times. Chances are good either you didn't need a video conference at all, or any of the tools would have been fine.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use Jitsi

If my livelihood depends on interacting with people, I need a super compelling reason to switch. Not to mention considering whether the hassle of using/maintaining Jitsi myself is worth billable rate doing work I’m actually interested in

Well, I was also instructed by my company to uninstall Zoom clients. And Zoom deliberately make the "use the web version" as obnoxiously difficult to use as their native client is easy. (Why would that be, I wonder? Hmm...) Is "I need to talk to someone at one of the dozens of companies that have forbidden Zoom" a good reason to switch to Jitsi, which is 1) open source 2) entirely browser-based 3) runs anywhere Chrome runs without any extra plugins / installation?

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#148
Can someone with more experience using Jitsi comment on benefits/limitations for use at work? We typically have 2-5 people on calls but occasionally up to 20. I tried it a bit with 1-1 calls and it was pretty great but I'm assuming there are some limitations vs Zoom to be aware of.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#149
post #16

What's surprising to me is that it was allowed before. They have had their own videochat solution for years, so I would expect the usual "eat your own dogfood" approach.

As someone who uses Google Meets daily, dogfood is the right word.

What's wrong with it? We're GSuite customers and I spend at least an hour in Meet each day with zero issues :)

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#150
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worked reliably for me Every second time I’m using it, I either don’t hear the other people, or people do not hear me. YMMV.

If you have these issues, especially so frequently, I'd wager it's a problem on your end.

Almost all problems on video conferences are on the user's end. What Zoom excel at is to mitigate most of those user issues by trying to figure out all the corner cases that the user might be in.
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