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Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

nytimes.com

141–145 of 145 posts

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't stockpile everything you could need for every potential crisis. At an individual level, think of extreme preppers that have huge tanks full of water, years of storable food, an arsenal of guns, etc. This only covers a small set of scenarios, but the cost is unaffordable on a national scale. What makes a country resilient is not stockpiles, although those help, but the ability to quickly switch production to…

That sounds like more of an argument for ensuring that your supply chain is spread among your allies rather than your enemies.

Purely economically, the west is at a disadvantage because they'd be fighting free-market pressure of everyone wanting the lowest price. Right now, for whatever reason, things are cheaper to make/buy-from China and other Asian countries. From my perspective, there are only 3 options as to how to fix this:

1. Accept and be willing to pay a higher price (for manufacturing that happened in friendly places)

2. Impose tariffs on Chinese-made goods so that the local higher-price is a non-issue and may even be cheaper due to lower shipping costs.

3. Impose whatever it is that makes things more expensive in the West to also happen in China. E.g. environmental laws, regulations, working conditions, etc.

My vote would be number 3. Get the damn UN to proclaim something, impose sanctions and embargoes if they don't comply, kick them out of the UN meetings, blockade their border and punish countries that don't comply with the sanctions/embargo, etc. Right now, we all keep complaining, treaties and stuff gets passed and blasted out on the news with feel-good promises of compliance X-years later, but when non-compliance happens blatantly, no one does anything but complain and half-ass it by proclaiming condemnation, imposing silly sanctions that do very little, etc.

Half the humanitarian and human-rights problems happening right now around the world can be fixed if strict rules were put in place, and non-compliance by various governments was punished severely. We need to stop treating countries as nebulous entities with no accountability. Hold the entire country accountable and watch the dominoes fall into place as everyone really at the end of the day wants to get along and just go about their daily lives. If democracy works for citizens, it should work for countries.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#142
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's go to the source of this problem - Corn/Wheat lobbyist paying off lawmakers in DC. This is the root cause of American sell out. It is an awful system that needs to be completely dismantled, criminilized and banned. Please don't tell me about how each special group has the right to lobby... this is an asymmetrical game. As the corn/wheat lobbyists lobby, who is opposing them? No one. And, as their interests are…

'... democracy is the worst form of Government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time...' What's your proposal for how to ban lobbying?

That quote doesn't paint the full picture. E.g. We haven't tried direct-democracy. Still won't fix peoples' herd-like behavior of following skilled orators, but it should make a serious dent in lobbying.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean say what you will, but that kind of is the American way since the founding of the republic. Don't trust the sovereign to take care of you, because just sometimes that ends with the cops welding people into apartment buildings Does that mean people should hoard and price gouge their fellow man during a pandemic, of course not.

I'd call myself a libertarian. I've gone through phases of many different flavors, but ultimately all united by a general belief that people should be free to make choices for themselves, and ultimately know themselves better than a centralized government. Having said that, there is a huge blindspot of this philosophy with regards to public health. So much so, that when public health officials do their job, we can co…

I personally don't think that Libertarianism (and anarcho-capitalism by extension) have a blindspot when it comes to public health. Right now we're seeing huge efforts in the private sector to mitigate this disaster, that can not be discounted. As simple examples, private entities are giving out sanitizers, increasing hygiene and cleaning policies, putting up posters for awareness, coming up with contact-less procedures for public interaction, hiring people to fix online shopping demand, etc. When people are scared, they act. When a business's continuation is threatened, it will act.

My private health-care provider and insurance provider have already extended (without government mandate, direction or legislation or extra-cost) my cover for any corona-related treatment/illness/death. In-case I lose my income due to this, they've also extended my unemployment to cover that so I won't be losing my income if it comes to that. And I can get a private test at my-cost (or healthcare provider will reimburse me) for less than $70.

So that just leaves what...Mass coordination of "public" spaces? Again, tragically those spots are both everybody's and nobody's at the same time, essentially paralyzing them from doing anything too drastic without government approval.

Not to mention the government is now stepping in and stopping some of these efforts because "human rights". They're planning on commandeering private hospitals and facilities to provide healthcare for free for those that don't pay and to deal with the fact that they were inadequately prepared for this crisis. They've also started with curfews, sent military police to private premises to "count" heads in case they go above some magical government number, prohibited public-dissemination of information by epidemiologists without government-approval.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#144
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd call myself a libertarian. I've gone through phases of many different flavors, but ultimately all united by a general belief that people should be free to make choices for themselves, and ultimately know themselves better than a centralized government. Having said that, there is a huge blindspot of this philosophy with regards to public health. So much so, that when public health officials do their job, we can co…

I personally don't think that Libertarianism (and anarcho-capitalism by extension) have a blindspot when it comes to public health. Right now we're seeing huge efforts in the private sector to mitigate this disaster, that can not be discounted. As simple examples, private entities are giving out sanitizers, increasing hygiene and cleaning policies, putting up posters for awareness, coming up with contact-less procedu…

> private entities are giving out sanitizers, increasing hygiene and cleaning policies, putting up posters for awareness, coming up with contact-less procedures for public interaction, hiring people to fix online shopping demand

You're helping to prove my point. These are all reactive actions that simply attempt to mitigate the problem. I've personally upped my hygiene, policies, and mask / hand sanitizer use as well. This isn't going to actually solve the epidemic, but it will reduce my own exposure now that it's a major problem.

Where was the private company temperature-checking international travelers in February, testing, and quarantining or contact tracing as necessary?

Proactive prevention requires focus and coordination. A team that is paid to sit around looking for specific threats will take them seriously, while businesses (really all entities, including individuals and the non-specialized parts of government) only respond to the current conditions. Large companies could certainly employ similar risk teams, but don't seem to have done so for the current problem.

> deal with the fact that they were inadequately prepared for this crisis

The entire medical system, public and "private", is unprepared for the crisis. One could make the argument that if healthcare had been a freer market there would be much increased hospital capacity, but I don't see how this makes sense given businesses tendency to be reactive. Supplies like masks could have been easily stockpiled by companies and sold at a decent profit when needed, but weren't.

> They've also started with curfews, sent military police to private premises to "count" heads in case they go above some magical government number, prohibited public-dissemination of information by epidemiologists without government-approval.

You'll get no argument from me about these being injustices. But I think the real anti-freedom jackboots are going to come out when people start dying in significant numbers from hospital crowding. Which is kind of my entire larger point - when situations are allowed to get out of hand, restoring forces step in and none of them are conducive to lofty ideals of freedom.

Re: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

#145
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if the people running the government believe in it or not. Central economic control doesn't work.

Every western country has used some central economic control continuously for the last 100+ years. Tariffs are ancient, but more modern tools like the FED or child labor laws are far from recent. Saying they never work is clearly disingenuous. PS: Unless you’re thinking of central planning aka communism and just using the wrong word.

> Every western country has used some central economic control continuously for the last 100+ years. Tariffs are ancient, but more modern tools like the FED or child labor laws are far from recent.

Tariffs and child labor laws are not remotely "turning industry over to government to run."

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