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One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

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Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#141

Post by ryanmercer »

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

>Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American?

I take home $465.62 a week so it would be a little over 2 weeks of take home pay for me. I could absolutely use that.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#142

Post by georgemcbay »

trophycase wrote: post #101

Nope, as pointed out by others. This doesn't do anything to solve the systemic problems that allowed this to happen and us to be woefully unprepared for this.

I don't have any specific opinion on if the proposed action would be a good or a bad thing (I'm not an economist or policy-wonk type), but it seems silly to me to dismiss actions taken in a crisis just because they don't solve the systemic problems that caused the situation.

Sometimes you need to stem the bleeding to buy yourself enough time to fix the underlying problem.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#143

Post by jfengel »

strunz wrote: post #115
maliker wrote: post #90

There was a $300/person tax rebate during the 2008 recession in the USA. So it's not that far fetched an idea. I wonder how these kind of direct-to-consumer payments compare with traditional monetary policy (cutting interest rates, securities purchases) in terms of impacts.

Wasn;t it determined that no one actually spent that money and just paid of debt instead?

Not no one, but few. That's what the National Bureau of Economic Research concluded:

https://www.nber.org/papers/w15421

"Only about one-fifth of respondents in the Reuters/University of Michigan survey report that the 2008 tax rebates led them to mostly increase spending, while over half said it would lead them to mostly pay off debt... [T]he results imply that the rebates provided only a modest stimulus to spending per dollar of rebate."

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#144

Post by nybble41 »

ryukafalz wrote: post #127
corebit wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call luck is actually a set of economic signals that has incentivized good behavior and teaching good behavior. If your Ferrari-renting, living above their means counterparts are bailed out while your frugal living means are not rewarded, then you are incentivized to live above your means when things return to normal.

There’s also just straight up luck. I was fortunate enough to get a decent job that paid well largely because I knew the right people; I have friends with similar levels of education who aren’t so well off. They’re not any less thoughtful with their money than I am (in fact probably more so), it’s just a matter of circumstance.

"Knowing the right people" isn't exactly pure luck either. People do have a certain amount of influence over the social connections they (or their family) choose to cultivate.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#145

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

I'm sure there are many Americans for whom this would be insufficient. However, for my partner and I, and our immediate family this amount would allow all of us to keep our heads above water without catastrophic financial fallout, until society has restarted. I may be laid off this week. If I am, and if unemployment is less than 50% my expected take home, and lasts more than two months, then I am going to have to make decisions that will adversely effect my credit through no fault of my own, except not having a sufficient emergency fund built up. 1000/mo, even just for my entire household would allow us to stave off entering arrears indefinitely.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#146

Post by nerfhammer »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #20
paxys wrote: post #16

America's immediate priority needs to be public health, not the stock market. The economy will recover, dead people won't.

The stock market is not a magical abstract thing that has no impact on people's lives. It has an indirect and huge impact on all of us.

this won't help the stock market, that's hopeless now. people are only going to spend money on essentials until the crisis is over.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#147

Post by baumy »

dionidium wrote: post #126
maximente wrote: post #57

i just don't see how UBI survives a highly polarized, segregated society pumped out by the US media. imagine the headlines by Fox News as soon as they find 4 people living together playing video games all day. or smoking pot. or etc. in a weird way it dangerously exposes people as, according to "the economy", particularly not valuable. the framing will go: these people are literally doing nothing and we're supporting…

imagine the headlines by Fox News as soon as they find 4 people living together playing video games all day. or smoking pot. or etc. You're right that it'll require a pretty fundamental shift in attitude. Some folks will still think people like that are losers. That's fine. But maybe we'll get to a point where they won't think such people, losers that they may be, are doing anything they're not entitled to be doing.…

This comment is very weird to me.

The hypothetical group of stoned gamers being discussed are certainly entitled to choose to spend their time smoking weed and playing games. I don't see how it follows that they're entitled to me subsidizing their choices with my tax dollars. I think people who are capable of holding a job / productively contributing to society but choose not to are indeed losers, and I will continue to think that way because it seems to me to be an obvious truth. I truly hope that does not change.

Can you explain why I should think otherwise? I'm genuinely curious. I realize this is just a hypothetical but I can't imagine anyone having any sympathy for those people. There's also an argument to be made that enabling them is hurting more than helping, but I'm leaving that aside entirely for the moment.

People have choices, and choices have consequences.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#148

Post by basch »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #10
tjr225 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That also seemed like a comically paltry move. I still have to make my payments, after all! In addition my wife and I have spent the last couple of years with two incomes wiping away our student debt on high incomes in Seattle - so the only loans I have left are pretty low interest. The only way I can see this working for everyone is to simply halt the economy altogether. No mortgages, no bills, free food, free medic…

I suspect the interest will help some quite a bit. Not everyone, of course. I do think that the money would be better if targeted toward certain people versus peanut-buttered over everyone.

But the payment doesnt go down, it just applies more to principal.

It will benefit people more in the long run, but it's not short term relief.

Re: One way to fight a coronavirus recession: $1k for every American

#149

Post by myhf »

tjr225 wrote: post #3

Am I way out of band or does that seem like a comically small amount of money for the average American? I live in an extremely low COL area and live well within my current means. Assuming my work dries up and I don't have any savings, 3k$ would buy me two months tops. Just to give you an idea of how cheaply I live: Mortgage is ~800$/mo, Car is a paid off 2006 Toyota Highlander, Student loan minimums of ~400$/mo, My w…

It won't go very far in replacing income, but it could push a lot of people from a high risk category into a low risk category.

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

– David Copperfield, by Charles Dickens

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