Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#141

Post by jdm2212 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:09 AM UTC

nuggien wrote: post #42

Airbnb is a shitty company. Last october we traveled to Seoul and couldn't find the location of the apartment we booked. Even the local taxi driver couldn't find it after circling the area for ~30 minutes. We called the host during the entire 30 minutes and didn't get through to them. After about 1 hour of time, we decided to call it quits and go book a hotel because it was 10pm at night and our kids needed to sleep.…

Everything in Tokyo is tiny. My dad, my wife and I stayed at a reasonably nice hotel there ($250/night) and the situation was basically how you're describing your Airbnb -- bedroom that's completely taken up by the beds, and a bathroom you can barely turn around in.

Kyoto, Hiroshima, etc. are a different story. But Tokyo is pretty much the most cramped place I've ever visited, both indoors and out.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#142

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:10 AM UTC

thedance wrote: post #130

Kluny wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of it before this thread, so I guess they had a marketing problem. But I will definitely check it out next time I have reason to.

VRBO was Airbnb years before Airbnb decided to take their business model and add white-collar crime on top. Just like computer-dispatched car services existed for decades prior to Uber.

Not quite. VRBO was (and I guess mostly still is) focused on vacation rentals in traditional vacation destinations (beaches, ski resorts, etc.), and even before that there were of course local property-manager managed rentals for decades.

AirBnB was originally about shared rentals in urban destinations. Of course they both grew to overlap in a lot of areas, but AirBnB had a huge advantage in that their business model was much better suited (renters paid a fee for each booking, while VRBO had owners pay a subscription fee) to a Google AdWords dominated world.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#143

Post by teej » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:11 AM UTC

exhilaration wrote: post #140

ohbleek wrote: post #136

AirBnB failed. I don't even check it out anymore when I travel because a hotel typically costs about the same due to the fees charged by the hosts. I would choose a hotel over AirBnB until the price difference is 15-20% lower in favor of AirBnB because there are too many unknowns with AirBnB and the novelty has worn off entirely. Plus since so many listings are owned by some company or person renting out multiple loc…

What AirBnB has over hotels is locations inside neighborhoods. Take Montreal for example, the hotels are clustered downtown, which is fine if that's what you're looking for. But by staying in an AirBnB you get a local experience, in a local neighborhood. It's like this all over the world.

This is exactly what’s terrible about Airbnb. A listing in a residential neighborhood creates negative externalities on that community.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#144

Post by mattsears » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

ohbleek wrote: post #136

AirBnB failed. I don't even check it out anymore when I travel because a hotel typically costs about the same due to the fees charged by the hosts. I would choose a hotel over AirBnB until the price difference is 15-20% lower in favor of AirBnB because there are too many unknowns with AirBnB and the novelty has worn off entirely. Plus since so many listings are owned by some company or person renting out multiple loc…

AirBnB didn't fail. It has some work to do with managing fees, but overall, it provides a great service for people wanting a better or different experience than traditional hotels AND it's provide hosts with additional income at the same time. I much rather give my money to people needing extra savings than big business hotel chains.

I always look at Airbnb first when traveling because I value options like a kitchen where I can cook my own meals, a washer and dryer where I can wash my clothes, and a sofa to relax on.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#145

Post by thedance » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:15 AM UTC

jdm2212 wrote: post #138

thedance wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One day I was just getting drunk with a pal in Istanbul and we decided to see if we could get an Airbnb ... in Mogadishu. Sure enough there was one, a real nice looking place listed dirt-cheap by a new account that seemed to be based in Seychelles. Totally above board, I'm sure. Croatia is not Somalia, but it doesn't exactly scream "rule of law", either. Airbnb is not inherently safe so should only be used in countri…

I spent a week in an Airbnb near Dubrovnik, Croatia and it seemed like a normal, if slightly touristy European city in pretty much every way. And the Airbnb was really nice, too. Not sure where you're getting this stuff about "doesn't exactly scream 'rule of law'".

Croatia is a moderately corrupt mafia state. My personal view on this was formed when a Croatian coast guard officer demanded a bribe from me. But also https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_percept...

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#146

Post by jdm2212 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:16 AM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #41

I hope it's not the Groupon story repeating, where they went from funky-accounting to GAAP and all numbers had to be re-reported, obviously not in the company's favor.

It's not like Groupon. EBITDA is a totally normal metric to get a sense of how the core business is doing, and positive EBITDA in tech is a good leading indicator of profitability.

EBITDA is basically "how profitable would the business be if they had no debt and their existing assets never lost value?". For companies with factories, airplanes, etc. the physical plant deterioration matters a lot. For biotech companies with patents that expire after 20 years, asset value loss matters a lot too. But tech companies have neither physical capital nor TTL'ed intellectual property, so EBITDA is a good approximation.

What happened here is that the whole travel industry is falling apart, not accounting gimmicks.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#147

Post by jdm2212 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:17 AM UTC

almost_usual wrote: post #36

So COVID-19 ended all IPO hope?

IIRC they have to IPO because a lot of employees have expiring RSUs. Either they IPO, or they find a way to buy out those employees' RSUs.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#148

Post by jsonne » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

ohbleek wrote: post #136

AirBnB failed. I don't even check it out anymore when I travel because a hotel typically costs about the same due to the fees charged by the hosts. I would choose a hotel over AirBnB until the price difference is 15-20% lower in favor of AirBnB because there are too many unknowns with AirBnB and the novelty has worn off entirely. Plus since so many listings are owned by some company or person renting out multiple loc…

I've found the big advantage to be for longer stays. You can get almost half off which, while more expensive than rent, is considerably less than a hotel stay and allows me to live somewhere with a kitchen etc. rather than in a hotel.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#149

Post by thedance » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:18 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #142

thedance wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VRBO was Airbnb years before Airbnb decided to take their business model and add white-collar crime on top. Just like computer-dispatched car services existed for decades prior to Uber.

Not quite. VRBO was (and I guess mostly still is) focused on vacation rentals in traditional vacation destinations (beaches, ski resorts, etc.), and even before that there were of course local property-manager managed rentals for decades. AirBnB was originally about shared rentals in urban destinations. Of course they both grew to overlap in a lot of areas, but AirBnB had a huge advantage in that their business model…

Right, VRBO focused on vacation rentals, i.e. places where short-term stays are welcome, customary, and legal. AirBnB decided to apply the same model in cities were the practice is unwelcome, novel, and unlawful.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#150

Post by canada_dry » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 4:25 AM UTC

alexandec wrote: post #33

I've had bad experiences with multiple Airbnbs including: - showing up at night with the key not in the agreed location, and not being able to contact the owner until the next day - showing up and someone else was already in the unit - a webcam was plugged in and placed on the bedside table with no warning - conditions in the unit were significantly worse than those shown in the photos All these listings had great re…

I always like to point people to this site whenever AirBnB gets discussed:

https://www.airbnbhell.com

I also had a couple bad experiences with AirBnb years ago and am much more cautious and lean towards a regular hotel more often - despite yearning for the old Bed-n-Breakfast concept.