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“Just walk out” technology by Amazon

justwalkout.com

141–150 of 769 posts

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the items have posted prices, so it would really be simple math that could be done in one's head.

In the United States taxes are not included on the sticker price. As a result adding up the total price of a purchase can be tricky. However, I don't think this technology will be used extensively by people who purchase a large quantity of products at a time. Instead, this will be catered to the times when someone needs to pick up 5 or less things at a store. In this instance, these customers are not typically price-…

In certain places, tax is not added for certain goods. For example, in Seattle food is not taxed, unless it is prepared, like fast food or deli counters.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#142
post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

Unfortunately the current system doesn’t exactly work in real time (sometimes it can take a while for a receipt to appear in the app) but I don’t think that’s a fundamental limitation. I also don’t think this is a major concern though; so long as there’s still price tags (which there are) and it’s easy to dispute mistakes in the app I don’t think most people will really have a problem with it.

If my experience with Amazon hubs is anything to go by, the store employees will not be empowered to make any decisions or help you with anything and will direct you to call the customer-service number, and the customer-service people will not be empowered to fix any pricing errors on the spot.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the current system doesn’t exactly work in real time (sometimes it can take a while for a receipt to appear in the app) but I don’t think that’s a fundamental limitation. I also don’t think this is a major concern though; so long as there’s still price tags (which there are) and it’s easy to dispute mistakes in the app I don’t think most people will really have a problem with it.

If my experience with Amazon hubs is anything to go by, the store employees will not be empowered to make any decisions or help you with anything and will direct you to call the customer-service number, and the customer-service people will not be empowered to fix any pricing errors on the spot.

That hasn’t been my experience actually going to one of these stores.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#144
post #3

> In Just Walk Out-enabled stores, shoppers enter the store using a credit card. They don't need to download an app or create an Amazon account. But you may as well. By giving them a CC# you're allowing Amazon to spy on you anyway -- and that's not even mentioning the copious surveillance in such stores in the form of cameras and behavior detection. > If shoppers need a receipt, they can visit a kiosk in the store an…

> But you may as well. By giving them a CC# you're allowing Amazon to spy on you anyway -- and that's not even mentioning the copious surveillance in such stores in the form of cameras and behavior detection.

Ha! They already have a decade of my purchase history from being a Prime customer and I shop using an Amazon Credit Card. They've got everything they need and I don't mind.

Few people would be bothered by something like this. If they would be bothered, we'd see bigger noise about grocery store loyalty programs which are basically to track purchases.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#145
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of business strategy these days tend to forget that their labor are often their customers in a somewhat symbiotic relationship. This was part of the realization Henry Ford had when developing Ford motors and during the heydays of labor rights. Cut your labor and you strangle your customer base. Now we're seeing a tendency of businesses focusing on more wealthy clients, luxury goods, etc. Some modern mall strate…

Yes but it's a tragedy of the commons / prisoner's dilemma issue. If your store employs 1% of the people in a given area, and therefore also 1% of your customers, you can't prevent the other 99% from laying off their own workforce and affecting you, unless you collude with them somehow. On the other hand, increasing your workers' pay will give you no meaningful sales benefit as it can at most affect that 1%.

I agree with your point and it seems (to me) to be a natural progression/emergent behavior of the current implementation of capitalism we subscribe to.

It could potentially be even more axiomatic than that and an unavoidable result of core/firmly held beliefs with trade systems that there will always be those to exploit the weaker (in an economic system) to the point where the system becomes unsustainable.

It often reminds me of agent based models of predator/prey systems where ultimately, the incorrect balance of predators, their efficiencies and successes result in a systematic collapse where the predators starve themselves to death by not allowing the prey to procreate and gather resources necessary that predators ultimately survive on.

In this case, if the wealthy (predators) don't allow the labor force (prey) to collect resources, create value, etc. before snatching added value up ('eating' if you'll humor the idea), they ultimately end up with no future value added from labor force (prey) because the labor doesn't have resources anymore to add value.

From your example following the same basic model, if some of the predators allow themselves to refrain from eating too much and allow the prey to better maintain stable set resources through self control, nothing stops their competitors (other prey) from focusing on their short term gains with no control (yum, more dinner). Ultimately, those predators looking at maintaining a long term stable system will starve if his/her competitors don't share the same views and are allowed to follow the more basic rules. It seems to me, you have to introduce artificial rules into the system to maintain the system (e.g., government regulation or new fundamental underlying rules to the dynamics).

Obviously, the real relationship is far more complex than this view and this model has many shortcomings, but it seems to provide at least some potentially valuable insight to the situation, IMHO.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#146
post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

The closest I have to this today is the grocery store nearest me - I walk in, I pick up a scanner (you can use an app on your phone but I use their scanner because my phone locks immediately with a passphrase when unused so it's ghastly for this purpose) and I just wander about scanning items and putting them into bags. The scanner shows its estimate of the price paid, which in my experience is always 100% accurate but I guess "estimate" is needed because legally the shop is not promising to sell at this price yet. I walk to the exit and scan the exit and give back the scanner, it tells me the final price which is the same as that estimate and then I pay with my card and walk out.

This is still extra steps compared to "Just walk out" but it's close. There is no interaction with store employees (which suits some friends who struggle to do human interaction on "bad" days) for example, this store would seem to work just fine without any employees although of course it's a huge grocery store so it has dozens doing various things and couldn't in fact function without some.

The really nice optimisation of course is to get rid of the money. If you stop caring about trying to make the numbers add up and just rely on people going "Huh, I only need two cabbages, why would I take sixty cabbages? What am I going to do with sixty cabbages?" then this is all much simpler. But I think even Amazon doesn't expect to deploy this to a culture where that's realistic.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#147
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience had been that it can vary quite a bit. Most of the time it’s pretty quick, but occasionally it can be over an hour.

Maybe that is a person verifying because the software flagged something as uncertain.

Very possible.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#148
post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

I'm sure the items have posted prices, so it would really be simple math that could be done in one's head.

I don't think it's a lot to ask that I'm informed how much I'm going to be charged before I pay for something, which is the process for every sale I make currently works.

What if the item is marked as on sale but the database hasn't been updated so I don't get the sale price?

What if the price on the item is correct but someone fat fingered the price in the database?

What if a different customer moved an item from one shelf to another so the price on the shelf is for a different product?

What if I want to know the total with tax?

What if a camera sees me pick up a $500 item to look at but doesn't see me put it back on the shelf?

I don't want to go home, wait an hour+, see I've been mischarged, and then have to spend a week waiting for a refund to process.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like the kind of thing that works better at scale. Against a regular 7-11, probably not. But what stops the model in question from being applied to a warehouse-style store with still only four employees needed?

Even for costco, most employees aren't cashiers--which is only job really affected by this tech.

Don’t forget “loss prevention officers” (i.e. security.) In the bad parts of my city, and especially at night, convenience store staffing is 50% security (= one clerk at the counter; one guard at the door.) And that staffing, unlike the clerks, can’t be done on minimum wage.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#150

As long as there's still an option for human people to pay using their own money it's fine. But if these stores only allow for corporate people to purchase items (on behalf of their customer humans (credit cards)) then it is a very unethical system and probably should be made illegal.

It may soon be illegal in NYC: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/24/new-york-cit...

I expect to see similar legislature to roll out elsewhere; these are interesting times.

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