We all wear tinfoil hats now • Hacker News Board

Re: We all wear tinfoil hats now

#141

Post by dangerface » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 3:07 PM UTC

kordlessagain wrote: post #103

dangerface wrote: post #52

The op doesn't seem to know the first thing about advertising and is in denial of how it works. Op asks head of facebook advertising if advertising influences people, their response "No companies spend millions on advertising with us because it doesn't work!". > The gullibility of the latter two may have stemmed from wishful thinking: If Brexit and Trump could be traced to the malign influence of a single company The…

Other than the fact you are calling the wrong person an "op" I think this statement says a lot about you: > the reality is that if advertising didn't work people wouldn't pay for it People don't pay for advertising. Instead, corporate assholes who do advertising spend money on search for models which make enough to cover the costs of finding ways to get people to repeat the pattern of "re-seeing" or "re-hearing" a br…

> People don't pay for advertising.

Individuals don't pay for advertising, when individuals are group like in a corporation, business, charity, government they become people, I have done advertising for all the above and sole traders.

Re: We all wear tinfoil hats now

#142

Post by toss1 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:09 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #106

toss1 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm very well aware that this has been a thing since, like, forever. A fine example was in the 2000 South Carolina primary when Karl Rove working for Bush, distributed door-to-door flyers just ahead of the primary that implied that John McCain had an illegitimate black baby from an affair. McCain had actually adopted a child from Bangladesh. McCain lost the primary. Similarly with the HRC issue. It is one thing…

I've worked as a canvasser, and organized door-to-door campaigns. One of the key CA products was an app for canvassers, telling them about each home on their route. So they knew which homes to ignore, and what message to deliver for the ones worth hitting. And that both saved time, and arguably increased effectiveness.

excellent info - thanks!

Re: We all wear tinfoil hats now

#143

Post by toss1 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #113

toss1 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'm very well aware that this has been a thing since, like, forever. A fine example was in the 2000 South Carolina primary when Karl Rove working for Bush, distributed door-to-door flyers just ahead of the primary that implied that John McCain had an illegitimate black baby from an affair. McCain had actually adopted a child from Bangladesh. McCain lost the primary. Similarly with the HRC issue. It is one thing…

> It is one thing to have it in the news - or not If by "news" you mean gate-keeping establishments owned by very large conglomerates. There's very little local independent news for the average person. There is only politicized news. It's up to every individual to be their own arbiter of truth and morality. It's my opinion that both major parties in the US lie and deceive, so the things you're referring to have no sp…

This is a fine example of the mistake of false equivalence, and its consequences.

Of course one can find infractions from anyone. As Cardinal Richelieu famously said: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."

Getting a debate question in advance is nowhere near the scale of engaging with and changing the country's policy in favor of foreign enemies - yet you use this example to equate it and conclude that we should crash the system.

The result of crashing the system is NOT any kind of improvement. It is anarchy, which is quickly filled in with goverment by warlords -- that is not a situation under which anyone wants to live.

Yes, the system will always have room for improvement, and yes there will always be at least cheating at the edges.

That does not mean that we should make the PErfect the enemy of the Good. We must distinguish between minor cheating and corruption tantamount to treason.

We must remain fully involved -- as Jefferson said, "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance", and build, maintain, and improve the system of checks and balances.

Expecting people to be perfect is a fools errand. The key is to build and maintain a system where the power is distributed - different concentrations of power checked and balanced by others -- so that when people inevitably cheat, the effect is limited, yet the society can still coordinate enough power to accomplish great things.

Re: We all wear tinfoil hats now

#144

Post by linuxftw » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 12:52 AM UTC

toss1 wrote: post #143

linuxftw wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is one thing to have it in the news - or not If by "news" you mean gate-keeping establishments owned by very large conglomerates. There's very little local independent news for the average person. There is only politicized news. It's up to every individual to be their own arbiter of truth and morality. It's my opinion that both major parties in the US lie and deceive, so the things you're referring to have no sp…

This is a fine example of the mistake of false equivalence, and its consequences. Of course one can find infractions from anyone. As Cardinal Richelieu famously said: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." Getting a debate question in advance is nowhere near the scale of engaging with and changing the country's policy in favor of fo…

> The result of crashing the system is NOT any kind of improvement. It is anarchy, which is quickly filled in with goverment by warlords -- that is not a situation under which anyone wants to live.

The current and past administrations are literal warlords. They wage war and install puppets all over the planet. Sometimes open war, sometimes covert war.

> the enemy of the Good

I don't think most of the planet would describe the US Federal goverment as 'good.' Probably 'evil' or at the very least 'irredeemably corrupt.'

Re: We all wear tinfoil hats now

#145

Post by toss1 » Thu, Mar 05, 2020, 8:17 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #144

toss1 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fine example of the mistake of false equivalence, and its consequences. Of course one can find infractions from anyone. As Cardinal Richelieu famously said: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." Getting a debate question in advance is nowhere near the scale of engaging with and changing the country's policy in favor of fo…

> The result of crashing the system is NOT any kind of improvement. It is anarchy, which is quickly filled in with goverment by warlords -- that is not a situation under which anyone wants to live. The current and past administrations are literal warlords. They wage war and install puppets all over the planet. Sometimes open war, sometimes covert war. > the enemy of the Good I don't think most of the planet would des…

I'm talking about a society itself run by warlords and rival gangs without institutions, not deliberate twisting of the word to refer to geopolitical actions.

You also apparently deliberately overlook the contrast between the US, which at least makes strong attempts to build and maintain a democracy at home and export those benefits to the world, vs. other world powers like RUS or CCP, which are effectively gangs.

Seriously, consider the consequences of ceding geopolitical hegemony to Putin or CCP, or just having global anarchy. Start with massive increases in pollution as all international cooperation halts and the economies crash and 9 billion people get more desperate.