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Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

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Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#141

Post by bad_user »

callmeal wrote: post #49
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #7

It was incredible to me how aggressively Microsoft came out supportive of the Chrome team and how loudly they discussed the wonderful amount of collaboration the two companies had been up to since starting work on the new Edge. I've seen Googlers responding to Edge developers about how they'll get some mishandling of Edge fixed internally at Google. But really, this is just the same story as before: The "oops" have b…

>The "oops" have begun... Try running gmail in firefox. It's abysmal. A single click takes a few seconds to open email. This is malice, not incompetence. And I'm not even going to get into the whole endless captcha on firefox 'feature'.

Personally I don't run Gmail in the browser — people complain about running Gmail on top of Firefox, but it has performance issues on top of Chrome too.

You get a much better experience with a native app, like MailMate or Thunderbird.

I just don't understand people using webmail on their workstations, especially Gmail. It was cool doing that in 2004, but it got old.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#142

Post by tenebrisalietum »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #90
pingyong wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're ever wondering how much data Chrome sucks out of you, the amount of effort Google goes through to try to keep people from using even Chrome-Edge, let alone Firefox, should give you a rough idea. Microsoft probably won't be much better though in the long run...

This is why I switched to Firefox years ago and have never looked back. I already have enough low-grade anxiety from trackers and whatnot sucking my data, I can't deal with an entire browser that exists solely to gather data. The fact that so many of us in the development community, who are particularly sensitive to privacy concerns, unashamedly use Chrome continues to baffle me. I had one guy on Reddit tell me he fe…

If you read a lot on websites font kerning can be a big issue.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#144

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

Retric wrote: post #117
judge2020 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that would be a true statement in almost any context, barring specifically using features that you know Chrome doesn't work well with or going through the chromium bug tracker to find things to do that break Chrome.

If developers use Firefox instead of Chrome you do get some rendering bugs in Chrome. Standard compliance have gotten much better, but at one point in my last project Edge, Safari, Chrome, and Firefox where all doing different things while I was trying to fix an odd CSS issue.

This is part of the reason I use Safari as my default browser

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#145

Post by techsupporter »

dkns wrote: post #51
pingyong wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're ever wondering how much data Chrome sucks out of you, the amount of effort Google goes through to try to keep people from using even Chrome-Edge, let alone Firefox, should give you a rough idea. Microsoft probably won't be much better though in the long run...

I reckon Microsoft can be even worse considering how much data they gather about you through telemetry built in Windows. Imagine if you're web dev using windows and edge along with vscode. Oof.

> along with vscode

For those who don't know about it, VSCodium is a community-delivered build of Visual Studio Code with telemetry removed.

https://vscodium.com/

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#146

Post by bzbarsky »

thu2111 wrote: post #129
simias wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a systematic issue with many of Google's services. They have the money and manpower to test their interface on Firefox. We're talking about a modern, generally standard-compliant browser here, not IE6. Getting those websites to perform decently on Firefox shouldn't be a problem for Google. I can believe that they don't purposefully break Firefox for the sake of it, but it's clear that they make no effort to m…

It's an artifact of how they develop and test software. And ultimately Firefox suffered these bugs because their product wasn't compelling. Googlers push new code to production regularly, with the cycles getting faster all the time. It used to be biweekly (as the article alludes). Then it was weekly. Then it was daily. Then it was "push on every green build". If you push to production literally the moment your test s…

> They always got fixed quickly when reported.

Having been involved in a number of these reports, this is flat-out false. Basic "fix your CSS to not rely on this Chrome bug; here's the exact diff you want to make it work both in browsers that follow the CSS spec and in Chrome" things regularly take 2-3 months to apply on the Google side. Basic "your browser user-agent sniffing is broken _again_ in the same way as three months ago" things take a month or two to fix.

Disclosure: Mozilla employee, have been cced on far too many of these bug report threads over the years.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#147

Post by zamalek »

WalterSobchak wrote: post #124
airstrike wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had been a hardcore Chrome user since the comic book days and switched back to Firefox last year. Imported my passwords and bookmarks and the transition couldn't have been smoother. I still have Chrome installed but haven't opened it more than a handful of times since. What about your experience hasn't been great?

Why do you choose to use the built-in web browser password manager?

I'm still using 1Password, but the built in one is starting to look pretty good. They even have an Android app for your passwords now. It's not just "browser passwords" like practically everyone else.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#148

Post by cpeterso »

lallysingh wrote: post #121
sebazzz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The user agent is equal to Chrome with "Edg" (not a typo) appended: > mozilla/5.0 (windows nt 10.0; win64; x64) applewebkit/537.36 (khtml, like gecko) chrome/76.0.3800.0 safari/537.36 edg/76.0.167.1 Certainly not an accident, unless they tried to save one byte by not checking on the full "Edge" token.

Very well could be an internal project/component name in MS.

Microsoft's purposely changed Chromium Edge's User-Agent string to say "Edg" [sic] instead of "Edge". They wanted to give sites a way to identify Chromium Edge without accidentally treating it was the old Trident Edge (whose User-Agent string says "Edge"). No one would have written User-Agent string sniffing code that searches for "Edg" instead of "Edge" before Chromium Edge was released.

Thus, Google sites are explicitly targeting Chromium Edge because the only way to differentiate Chrome from Chromium Edge is for the server is to search the User-Agent string for "Edg". If they just searched for "Chromium", then Chromium Edge would be successfully match.

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#149

Post by bzbarsky »

McGlockenshire wrote: post #133
hknd wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are different teams within Google, and it's kinda not fair to say that Google is not truly behind open web standards. Their whole web developer advocate team is behind open web standards, and pushes it forward everyday. The engineering team actually working on Chrome is behind those standards, and pushes it forward. They work closely with other browser vendors. and try to make everything work everywhere. Then t…

I'm out of the loop. What is "OKR" in this context?

"Objective and Key Result". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKR

Re: Google Chrome's fear of Microsoft Edge is revealing its bad side

#150

Post by Nannooskeeska »

airstrike wrote: post #111
chapium wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its still not great though :( (relatively speaking)

I had been a hardcore Chrome user since the comic book days and switched back to Firefox last year. Imported my passwords and bookmarks and the transition couldn't have been smoother. I still have Chrome installed but haven't opened it more than a handful of times since. What about your experience hasn't been great?

I can't speak to the experiences of chapium, but my issue with Firefox is that I always experience a slowdown of some sort after it's been open and in use for a few hours. I have to go into about:profiles and "restart normally" to make it go away for another few hours. I never had this problem with Chrome. I'm on my third or fourth attempt to switch to Firefox in the last year and it's still happening. I'm tempted to switch back to Chrome, but I really, really don't want to.

It's not my computer either - my work PC, at least, is a powerhouse.

Also, I find Chrome's dev tools to be marginally better - but I'm not sure if that's just my familiarity with them over Firefox's.

Quick edit: there are some other problems I have with Firefox, but they're all relatively minor and don't bother me nearly as much as the random slowdowns and short freezes.

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