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Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

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Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t talk about my salary with current coworkers, but I talk about salary openly to former coworkers in my same area and friends who I know make about the same or more than I do. Nothing can come good out of sharing my salary with current coworkers.

>Nothing can come good out of sharing my salary with current coworkers. Care to expand?

If I make more than they do and they think they should make the same amount, what’s to stop them from storming into the HR department and bringing my name up as a reason that they should make more?

Even though it is illegal to fire someone for discussing salary, that and a nickel will buy me a piece of five cent candy.

If they make more than I do, what am I going to do with that piece of information? I can’t very well bring it up at salary negotiations.

Besides, I have been around long enough to know that the best way to “get a raise” is to change companies.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#142
post #130

I am terribly underpaid.

Me too. I’m working at a FAANG company and apparently I could make 100k more. I was relocating for this job and I wasn’t really prepared for the negotiation, totally screwed it up, and I think they gave me the minimum they could. Oh the bright side, it’s still a good salary for me and I earn enough for two person to live comfortably.

I’m a little surprised at that. FAANGs tend to have fairly prescribed comp systems. There’s flexibility around equity and signing bonuses, but if you told me that you were making (base+bonus) say $250k and someone at your level was making $350k, I’d be pretty surprised.

This reveals one of the challenges in these comparisons, by the way: total comp can vary dramatically due not only to initial signing bonuses (which can result in a total comp “cliff”) but also due to time-at-level: e.g. if you were just promoted to level n and your peer was at n for four years, your peer’s net cash flow includes four previous n-sized RSU grants, whereas yours is 3x of n-1 grants.

Of course transparency is still good, but it’s easy to misunderstand what causes a comp difference; in the case of the fast-promoted engineer they may appear to earn less per year despite having a steeper career trajectory than a slower peer.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#143
post #83
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's useful to see what your peers are earning, especially for your next salary negotiation. And it's pretty obvious that if you don't live in SF, you shouldn't expect SF salaries.

This was always strange for me, and is a regular drunken debate between my roommates and I. If a company operates in a global market, why should it pay dramatically different salaries in different cities? For example, our London engineers make like 70k to our 140. But we both work on the same product. We both make the company the same amount of money. I've always thought it was just another bit of bullshit capitalist…

> We both make the company the same amount of money.

This is a common mistake. Compensation isn’t directly related to the value you produce. The value you produce for the company only sets an upper limit on long-term compensation.

Instead, your compensation reflects your opportunity cost of staying with the company. The company seeks to pay you the minimum amount required for you to continue working with them versus taking another job somewhere else.

Before you conclude that this is unfair, it’s important to understand that you do the same thing in your own decision making. If your car mechanic told you their rates were doubling to be more in line with mechanic rates in wealthier countries, would you think that’s fair? Or would you drive across town to a mechanic with more reasonable rates? Imagine if the mechanic said “I’ve seen the size of your house and your job at a big company, so I know you can afford it!”

Obviously you wouldn’t arbitrarily overpay for something due to completely unrelated market rates in a different country. Obviously the size of your bank account shouldn’t be permission for someone to overcharge you for services. Compensating employees is no different.

> I've always thought it was just another bit of bullshit capitalist policy by companies. Another way to save a dime. My roommates argue about lower cost of living etc.

Your second mistake is being upset or surprised when companies make decisions to save money. The entire purpose of a company is to generate more revenue than they spend, so of course they will make choices to efficiently allocate that capital. Again, you’re no different with your own personal decision making.

Hypothetically, let’s assume a company did institute a policy of equal pay at all offices. You would like to think that they’d choose the highest paid location an raise everyone’s pay to match that, but no sane company at scale would make that decision. Instead, they’d probably index to the average compensation, bringing everyone’s compensation toward the mean. Higher paid employees would receive a huge pay cut while low cost locales would see a huge pay raise. What do you expect to happen to the SF employees in this scenario? They will quit and take a job at a company down the street that will pay them market rate. What will happen to those employees in lower cost of living locations who were already choosing, voluntarily, to stay with the company? Nothing. They will stay in place, just like before.

Now that all of your SF employees have rightfully quit, the company will realize that their average “fair” compensation is unnecessarily high without SF salaries, so they can safely lower it to an average compensation for other locations. Again, the people in low cost of living locations rejoice while the people in high cost of living locations quit and take jobs that pay market rate.

Repeat this process for a few iterations and you’re only left with employees in the low cost of living location.

The sooner you accept that engineering labor obeys the laws of supply and demand and that you’re not paid according to the value you produce, the easier it is to understand while people are paid differently in different areas. Before you argue that people should be paid according to the value they produce, ask yourself if you’d be willing to pay money to the company if you accidentally produced negative value by introducing a major bug or if your team’s product launch failed. Of course you wouldn’t expect to be financially coupled to the risk and financial downside, which is why it’s unreasonable to expect to be directly coupled to the financial upside.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m at a 1000 person org and this is also how we hire. We have KPIs for “diversity” and the entire company gets a huge bonus when we meet all our targets, so there is a incentive all the way from the CEO to panel ICs.

There are certainly a bunch of freshly created accounts on HN, all corroborating each other. Very funny - can you name this 1000 person org/company.

I routinely rotate accounts to avoid identification, sorry, but I’m not willing to name the business. Timing is coincidence to my comment.

I can say I have 9 years of employment at this company and I’m intimately familiar with the internal politics.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#145

Look like people with higher pay don’t tweet about their salary ;)

I was thinking the same thing. If the original intent was to help underrepresented folks, now maybe they’ll benchmark themselves against only this naive group willing to self report on twitter and continue to be paid less than the real average.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, we’re trading anecdotes? Well, I know a lot of people, including many involved in hiring at various large tech companies, including myself. I’m sure they have programs to encourage diversity in hiring, but I seriously doubt they’re telling you they “blatantly discriminate” against white men and that white men have to perform much better in an interview in order to be hired. That’s an incomplete and simplistic sto…

Nobody's begging you to believe me. I'm just typing what I know from those involved

You don't need to beg to get us to believe you, simply provide some evidence. You're already disguising your identity behind a new anonymous account, which doesn't help your credibility, so why don't you disclose the name and location of the companies and more specific details, so we will have more information to go on than your anecdotes and personal interpretations?

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t talk about my salary with current coworkers, but I talk about salary openly to former coworkers in my same area and friends who I know make about the same or more than I do. Nothing can come good out of sharing my salary with current coworkers.

>Nothing can come good out of sharing my salary with current coworkers. Care to expand?

It can lead to unnecessary hard feelings about small differences in pay. I’ve definitely had relationships go awkward when people discovered I made a bit more then them, and have struggled not to think “why did that doofus get $5k more than me last year” myself.

I work for a large company with a well defined level structure. When I need to, I’ll say around $XXX, where XXX is what Glassdoor / levels.fyi says. It’s pretty close to accurate, and it also rounded enough that coworkers can project whatever number makes them happy.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#148
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For NYC, there are a smattering of houses under (to pick an arbitrary cutoff) 900K at 2000 square feet: https://streeteasy.com/houses/nyc/status:open%7Cprice:-60000... Many have mortgage payment estimates under what senordevnyc mentioned paying for rent, now.

I don't think any of those houses are in locations that most people here mean when they say NYC (by which many mean Manhattan south of about 110th Street or a fashionable part of Brooklyn).

Most tech jobs in NYC are in midtown and lower Manhattan, but people live all over. In my office there are people living in all 5 boroughs, Westchester, NJ, and Long Island. It’s true that Manhattan and BK are more heavily represented, but there are options.

Re: Developer salary spreadsheet compiled from tweets

#149
Why this spreadsheet is not available for non-logged users?

I just tried to download it, but it still require me to sign up.[0,1]

[0] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27000699/google-spreadsh...

[1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-xIgk7Mw1S5DXTZSbKBg...

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