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U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

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Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#141
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Come back on a L1 visa and boom you can apply in the EB-1 category and get your green card in a couple of years. Those days are gone now. You go into EB-1 only if you get into the US on L1-A. They don't give L1-A's easily these days. For starters you need to be in director level positions to even qualify for L1-A's. Even then the waiting period for India EB-1 itself is growing and stands at 5+ years now. And it wil…

> In short we Indians bought this upon ourselves. I was with you till here. No, we did not bring this to ourselves. The answer is that USA has dumb policies.

>>The answer is that USA has dumb policies.

Oh well, yeah. That part is true to some extent. But I can only comment on things we have control on. And to some extent a system with some specific rules needs to be used the way it was intended. We can't exactly say, we have a right to do what we like(in this case, cheat) especially when these things work like resources in a common pool. I can absolutely understand if some thing like this happened less than a percent. But the moment you enter double digit percentages of abuse/fraud, you are just hurting every one else. Expecting the other party to just offer an infinite pool of resources to accomodate our doing just adds to the anti-immigrant sentiment that is going around. Please note there are also people from other countries here.

Beyond this. Every system needs to work with a degree of fairness and merit, immigration is same.

On the shorter run, I do see someone putting a fix to these things and making things harder for every one else just to stop this abuse. On the longer I can see there will be increased pressure from economic centers all over the world, because every one is fighting for talent concentration at one place. This will lead to more liberal immigration policies.

And contrary to what our American friends believe it's hard to believe they will be the only country with economic centers attractive to everyone. Paris, London and Berlin have a growing tech scene. Then there's also Singapore and Dubai. Canada is another destination.

Beyond this the Chinese Bay Area(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong-Hong_Kong-Macau_Grea...) - Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macau Greater Bay Area. Seems to be especially designed to take on Western Economic Centers. They are building state of the art infrastructure. Roads, Railways, affordable housing and top notch Airports. They'll be fighting for the talent pie, and with their demographics on the decline, attracting top notch foreign talent with be a Chinese government priority too. I don't expect them granting them citizenships. But liberal Dubai style 99 year visas on owning a home are possible. And a lot of the world talent will want to work there.

The way I see America will only eventually succumb to the pressure and might have to open up immigration again.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#142

They will all eventually will migrate to US once the policies are relaxed. This is a typical path for immigrants who can’t get into US directly: Rest of the world -> Canada -> acquire TN Visa -> migrate to US

Except for the fact that your US immigration story will fully depend on where you're born. No amount Canada/Mexico/UK citizenship can change that place of birth, and the US will treat this generation of Indians/Chinese the way they always have.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#143
I moved from SF to Canada. Traded a higher salary and basically 0 shot at green card for less money, a PR when I walk in and guaranteed citizenship.

Most importantly, you cannot do anything besides your job on an H1B. No start ups, no side projects. You can't even BE in the US without a job and just bum around for a year. Every interaction with the US border folks makes me feel like a criminal. The visa fundamentally restricts the shape of your life in a way thats hard for residents to really understand.

I already get paid enough to retire comfortably when I'm older and it's no fun retiring young! Retirement costs in Canada are also significantly lower if you can count on free healthcare. Not worth it. I do miss the weather though :)

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#144
post #24

Vancouverite here. When major tech companies started setting up satellite offices here, I assumed it'd be a temporary situation, and that we'd be at the mercy of any change in the U.S. immigration process. The longer there's an immigration bottleneck though, the more entrenched these companies become here. There are more senior roles opening up here all the time, and salaries are increasing in this competitive market…

I view Canada as mix of good things from US (spacious streets, houses, landscape, partly English-speaking) and Europe (universal healthcare, education). If only it had a better climate... :)

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#145

I'm at somewhat of a cross-roads related to this matter. Note that this mostly applies to immigrants from India or China. I'm from India. This applies irrespective of education level (I did my Bachelors in the US, just FYI) Currently I'm in the US on a student visa (currently during a period of that visa that permits me to work) that expires in a couple years. I cannot renew it. If I want to continue working in the U…

On the flip side, if a U.S. citizen moves to India and wants to become a naturalized Indian citizen, just curious how long would that take?

If you’re of Indian origin (i.e. parent or grandparent is from India) it’s relatively quick to get an OCI card, which will allow you to remain indefinitely in India as well as work there. You don’t get the right to vote under that status.

Full blown citizenship is another matter, you’d have to give up your US citizenship, which still has its benefits. I can say with a great amount of certainty the US government cares a lot more for its citizens than other governments of the world, whose governments are usually outright hostile to their own citizenry/populace.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ____ salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. You can fill the blank with essentially any non-US location and it would remain correct. Nowhere in the world pays tech workers as much as US does, in absolute or relative terms. Most of the world, Canada included, has priced developer salaries close to engineer salaries. The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced cl…

> The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced close to doctor salaries. Actually, in the U.S. it is common for a FANG worker's salary to surpass that of doctors'.

Actually, not at all. It's just a myth from naive tech workers.

Googlers might get 200k but doctors routinely break 400k. Doctors are quite ahead even when you factor in 100k in RSU (which not everybody gets and past stock performance is not an indicator of future performance).

Noting it's H1B data so 10-20% below local salaries. Plus doctors can work anywhere in the country, not just in the city where there is google and facebook.

Google https://h1bdata.info/index.php?year=2019&em=GOOGLE+LLC

Versus some iowa and maine healthcare company https://h1bdata.info/index.php?year=2019&em=EASTERN+MAINE+ME... https://h1bdata.info/index.php?year=2019&em=IOWA+PHYSICIANS+...

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#147
post #58
post #24

Vancouverite here. When major tech companies started setting up satellite offices here, I assumed it'd be a temporary situation, and that we'd be at the mercy of any change in the U.S. immigration process. The longer there's an immigration bottleneck though, the more entrenched these companies become here. There are more senior roles opening up here all the time, and salaries are increasing in this competitive market…

This is how the film industry moved to California from New York. Back then it was far enough away not to worry about Edison patent lawsuits. By the time the rail improved and the patents expired, Hollywood (they tried Fremond and Tanforan first) was entrenched. There's really nothing like working in the Valley but not everyone likes it and if there's a solid alternative I suspect that Vancouver and Toronto will conti…

> This is how the film industry moved to California from New York.

I would think the great weather for filming and access to many kinds of terrain would is benefit New York can’t offer.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#148
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the weather there though? Can we just stop comparing cities? Everyone loves to complain about the cost of living in SF and always brags about how they could buy a mansion in the midwest. No one cares. It's all about location. There is a reason why California is the most populous state in the union despite it being so expensive (weather and jobs). There is a reason the population in the midwest is so low (lack o…

> How's the weather there though? Right this moment, they are almost the same (46F in SF vs 37F in Toronto). Toronto winter usually goes between 5F and 40F, but summer is way warmer than SF (between 75F to 90F vs 60F to 70F in SF)

Humidity is just as big a factor as temperature, and anything East if the Rocky Mountains is more humid than west of Rocky Mountains, in my experience.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#149
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ____ salaries are less than half than in the US for software developer roles. You can fill the blank with essentially any non-US location and it would remain correct. Nowhere in the world pays tech workers as much as US does, in absolute or relative terms. Most of the world, Canada included, has priced developer salaries close to engineer salaries. The US is the sole exception where developer salaries are priced cl…

There are no two schools of thought. There are no two "approaches". It's simple economics. Companies don't decide pay X, they have to pay X. In US, there are genuine software products company and software products happen to scale naturally and make a shit ton of money. In most other countries, software engineers are hired merely as IT guys for "main" businesses like insurance or government. They don't scale.

But how does this explanation work when you compare Facebook/Amazon etc. devs working in European offices to those working in the USA.

They are both working on the same products, but outside the USA the pay is a lot worse.

Re: U.S. immigration policy has been a boon for the tech industry in Canada

#150
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toronto may be expensive but it's not SF-level expensive. Salaries may not compare but you don't have to worry about basic things like healthcare and high-powered weaponry in the streets. Those are just the top two–there are many other reasons to move to Canada than just money.

As someone from a very red, very “high-powered weaponry” friendly area, I grinned ear to ear at your statement. Don’t let a few psychos scare you. Guns are neato.

Imagine the reaction here if London was being discussed and somebody rattled off anecdotes about the growing number of stabbings there.
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