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Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

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Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#141

Post by AWildC182 »

derp_dee_derp wrote: post #65
AWildC182 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "what about that [falsely equivalent] thing over there, now read [HN meme book of the month]" isn't exactly a sound argument...

pointing out hypocrisy is not a false equivalency, but nice try. also, you calling a foundational work in propaganda theory a meme book isnt exactly a sound counter argument, either. Here, educate yourself: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent

You're trying to spread misogynistic conspiracy theories and comparing that to Iranian propaganda... That's absolutely a false equivalency. You had a chance to make an argument to support your position but...

Everyone has been spamming "Manufacturing Consent" like crazy recently. Just telling people to read it doesn't support any argument, it's just an attempt to appear high-brow because Chomsky. You need to specify how Chomsky supports your argument.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#142

Post by davidwitt415 »

yyyk wrote: post #134
davidwitt415 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MEMRI is a well-known neocon propaganda outlet, so your arguments merely reflect this. From Sourcewatch: "Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) is an Israeli propaganda organization that selectively translates materials from the Arab/Muslim/Iranian press purportedly demonstrating hostility against Israel/Jews." https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Middle_East_Media_Rese...

Note how nothing at your 'source' has any evidence that MEMRI tends to mistranslate quotes or provide them out of context. When it comes down to it, it seems the complaint is that the people Sourcewatch quotes don't like MEMRI's alleged politics, and therefore we should ignore all evidence. IMHO, an ideological echo chamber is bad for the mind.

Easy enough to find, here's an editor of the Guardian calling out the President of MEMRI for just that:

"The fact is that you gave evidence to Congress claiming that Gallup had found "a large majority of the Arab world" who believed the September 11 attacks "were the work of the United States government itself and/or a Jewish conspiracy". What you said is untrue, and Gallup has confirmed that. I trust you will now apologise to Congress for your false testimony. Finally, in the light of your most recent remarks about me personally, I will make clear now that your nationality and religion do not bother me in the slightest. What does concern me is your political agenda, and the deceitful way you go about promoting it."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/28/israel2

Regarding the 'ideological echo chamber,' I fully concur. MEMRI's board has included such characters as Elliot Abrams, Donald Rumsfeld, and John Bolton, so the discriminating reader should take that into consideration as well.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#143

Post by elfexec »

dmix wrote: post #3

There was a spy TV show produced in Iran and pushed heavily on the state run TV networks there that they used to help justify detaining reporters, very clever propaganda: https://apnews.com/c5348f244a6b484fa3678f39a12e3ceb I remember seeing a clip of an Iranian leader saying every journalist is a spy and if they aren't they should be because they "don't get paid enough". Gives you insight into their thinking, or what…

That's because it's true from time to time. Journalists, diplomats, NGOs, academics, etc are the top spy vectors.

Do you really think russia is killing "journalists" because they are journalists or because they are spies or worse? Do you think the Saudi's killed kashoggi because he was just a "journalist" or because he was something else? Every major news/media organization in the world ( west, east, south , north ) are tied to the state. Whether you talk about the NYTimes or BBC or Xinhua or RT or Al Jazeera or [fill in the blank], they are all state organizations.

Of course this doesn't mean all journalists are spies. Most are just mindless grunts working for a paycheck like everyone else. But the journalists who are sent to iran, china, russia, etc are more likely than not tied to the state in one way or another.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#144

Post by 616c »

benbreen wrote: post #89
maverick2007 wrote: post #9

All these politics and political games are such a shame. The Tehran that the author describes seems like a really vibrant city that I'd really like to visit and experience. But I never will for fear or something like this happening, becoming some tiny pawn in a much bigger game. And I wish that Iranians could come to the US and visit NYC or SF and see our culture. Then we might realize that the other side is somethin…

I'm an American citizen and visited Iran back 2017 with no problems. I was nervous about getting questioned but surprisingly, it turned out to be one of the smoothest border crossings I've ever experienced - when entering Iran and the US I literally got no questions at all. (Getting an Iranian entry visa as an American without a government minder was bit trickier, but I was also pleasantly surprised by how smoothly t…

I went in 2011 and this resonated with me. One of the best trips of my life!

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#145

Post by Bendingo »

m0zg wrote: post #128
benbreen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American citizen and visited Iran back 2017 with no problems. I was nervous about getting questioned but surprisingly, it turned out to be one of the smoothest border crossings I've ever experienced - when entering Iran and the US I literally got no questions at all. (Getting an Iranian entry visa as an American without a government minder was bit trickier, but I was also pleasantly surprised by how smoothly t…

>> synagogues Do they still operate or are they remnants of pre-revolutionary times? I don't see how they can operate in a state whose publicly stated goal is to "wipe Israel from the face of the Earth".

Iran's issue with Israel is not related to Judaism. It's important to distinguish between anti-zionism and anti-semitism. Iran is the former but not the latter.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#146

Post by m0zg »

Bendingo wrote: post #145
m0zg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> synagogues Do they still operate or are they remnants of pre-revolutionary times? I don't see how they can operate in a state whose publicly stated goal is to "wipe Israel from the face of the Earth".

Iran's issue with Israel is not related to Judaism. It's important to distinguish between anti-zionism and anti-semitism. Iran is the former but not the latter.

I don't see how calling for the destruction of sovereign Jewish state is OK (or even constructive) in any shape or form, I'm sorry. Nor do I see how _funding Hezbollah_ to shoot rockets into that state is OK, either. Or how slaughtering thousands of protesters is OK. You don't have to support this garbage just because Trump droned their second in command.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#147

Post by eternalban »

eadmund wrote: post #138
Centigonal wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tehran is a beautiful city with a wide range of smart, compassionate, cool people. My cousin in Tehran introduced me to games like Counterstrike, Grim Fandango, and Battlefield, which got me into PC gaming, which got me into open source game scripting. We spent a few summers in Tehran, and there was this electronics bazaar called Paytakht[1] that I'd always beg my mom to take me to. They had everything from motherboa…

The coup of 1953 consisted of the Prime Minister of Iran ignoring the shah's legal order dismissing him from office and attempting to seize pre-eminent power for himself. To the extent that the U.S. and the U.K. were engaged in Persian politics in 1953, they were supporting the legitimate government against a usurper.

The fact that this lie -- "Shah was installed in `53 coup overthrowing the democratically elected Mossadegh" -- is insistently propagated by Western and Iranian propaganda machines is a very distinct clue. (Same can be said by the embrace of MKO cult by the likes of Bolton, Guilliani, and the rest of that gang. They never ever say even a single positive word about the late Shah of Iran. Verboten!)

Even wikipedia admits that:

"A referendum on the dissolution of Parliament, the first referendum ever held in Iran, was held in August 1953. The dissolution was approved by more than 99% of voters."

"99% of voters". This was the coup of Dr. Mossadegh and that ridiculous number is exhibit A.

"The balloting was not secret and there were two separate voting booths, i.e. the opponents of Mossadegh had to cast their vote in a separate tent.[7][1] Critics pointed that the referendum had ignored the democratic demand for secret ballots."

Sounds democratic to me. (Actually reminds me of the referendum of Ayatollah Khomeini -- I remember it vividly. I went with my uncle to the polling station. Two boxes in the room, clearly marked for and against, with dear "brothers" from the Komiteh with the G3s assault rifles slung over their shoulders watching over the process.)

Care to guess how many of those who virtue signal by bringing up '53 are aware of the "democratically elected" Dr. Mossadegh's "emergency powers"?

Even fewer know that the good Dr. was a member of the aristocracy of the deposed and despised Qajar dynasty.

Of course non-Iranians are welcome to their opinions, but it is entirely reassuring to this former Iranian that "Pahlavi" has become the rallying cry of Iranian youth.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#148

Post by hpcjoe »

Mirioron wrote: post #67
complianceowl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to visit Iran, as well. As an American, I love the look on people's faces when I tell them that. I also think it's important to distinguish between the government and the people. It can be easy to see them as one and the same, but that would be a mistake. Peter Santenello opened my eyes to Iran. I couldn't believe how pro-America so many Iranians are; the culture seems so rich, and the people so pleasan…

> I also think it's important to distinguish between the government and the people. It can be easy to see them as one and the same, but that would be a mistake. To a degree they are one and the same though. The government still requires the consent of the governed.

> To a degree they are one and the same though. The government still requires the consent of the governed.

This is decidedly untrue. Venezuela, North Korea, and many other counterexamples exist.

Repressive dictatorships do not require consent of the governed. They leverage their monopoly on violence and control. Quite literally, the first item on their agenda while forming is to disarm their populace.

This way, non-consensual governance is easier. No people demanding rights and freedoms, backed up by their ability to impose their will through force of arms. Put another way, they would be able to challenge the monopoly on violence that the (repressive) government holds.

Curiously, this is why the US bill of rights, is so important in guaranteeing freedom. The consent is given, up until the government decides to try to take rights away. Then consent is withdrawn.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#149

Post by bdamm »

m0zg wrote: post #146
Bendingo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iran's issue with Israel is not related to Judaism. It's important to distinguish between anti-zionism and anti-semitism. Iran is the former but not the latter.

I don't see how calling for the destruction of sovereign Jewish state is OK (or even constructive) in any shape or form, I'm sorry. Nor do I see how _funding Hezbollah_ to shoot rockets into that state is OK, either. Or how slaughtering thousands of protesters is OK. You don't have to support this garbage just because Trump droned their second in command.

Israel is not Judaism. I don't like military action either but let's not get confused about what the target of the missiles were.

Re: Trapped in Iran: My Summer as a Guest of the Revolutionary Guards

#150

Post by Apocryphon »

eternalban wrote: post #147
eadmund wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The coup of 1953 consisted of the Prime Minister of Iran ignoring the shah's legal order dismissing him from office and attempting to seize pre-eminent power for himself. To the extent that the U.S. and the U.K. were engaged in Persian politics in 1953, they were supporting the legitimate government against a usurper.

The fact that this lie -- "Shah was installed in `53 coup overthrowing the democratically elected Mossadegh" -- is insistently propagated by Western and Iranian propaganda machines is a very distinct clue. (Same can be said by the embrace of MKO cult by the likes of Bolton, Guilliani, and the rest of that gang. They never ever say even a single positive word about the late Shah of Iran. Verboten!) Even wikipedia admi…

You can claim that Mossadegh was no angel, but the Shah was even worse:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1980/03/23/t...

This apologist article damns the Shah with faint praise- perhaps there had been improvements under the Pahlavis in the latter days of the regime, but there were flagrant abuses under the SAVAK secret police in the early '70s to 1976- in engaging in such brutality, and in botching the land reform of the White Revolution, Mohammad Reza tied his own noose.

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