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Every Google result now looks like an ad

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Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#141

Post by prostheticvamp »

jacurtis wrote: post #130
Zenst wrote: post #101

I'm almost at the stage that I almost instantly scroll to the bottom and read up the results as I'm finding most of my clicks at at best near the middle and more often finding it's the second page onwards.

Yes, I too have built a subconcious habit of flicking the scroll wheel on my mouse twice after clicking enter on my search phrase. I just want to get past the 4 ads, the pack of local listings that I don't need, and the carousel of Google Shopping results, so that I can see the organic search results. Of course if you scroll down too far, Google jams another 2-4 ads at the bottom of the search results before you can…

> Yes, I too have built a subconcious habit of flicking the scroll wheel on my mouse twice after clicking enter on my search phrase.

I hadn’t noticed that I had started doing this, but now that you mention it...

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#142

Post by Analemma_ »

seanwilson wrote: post #37
Analemma_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at Bing. If you really want Bing to improve, the best thing you can do is just use it: clicks on search results, plus backs and dwell times, are vital training data. Ideally you could use Bing as your default engine, then fall back to Google whenever there's a search that doesn't yield good results. If you have the time, you can also use the Feedback link on the bottom-right of the page to report bad s…

> clicks on search results, plus backs and dwell times, are vital training data Interesting. Can you explain more on what is tracked after a user clicks a result and how this data is used?

(Disclaimer: as I said, I don't work at Bing anymore. Things may have changed in the intervening period and I could be mistaken or plain wrong about things)

Obviously ranking search results is immensely complicated with lots of accumulated insider wisdom, but the short answer is that "static" page features (PageRank, how well the query matches text on the page, etc.) are good for pruning down zillions of pages to generate a candidate list of 10 or so results to show the user, but not great at ordering those results, and serving the results in the best order is really important for user satisfaction. For generating the final top-10 ordering, "dynamic" features like how many people clicked that link, how long did they spend on the page, etc. are the most useful.

Regarding what is tracked, obviously Bing can only track what you're doing on Bing itself, so clicks on blue links and backs are tracked, but they can't see what you do on the destination page. This data is used to train models/NNs/etc. but the raw click data isn't kept for very long: it's too large and it has to be removed for GDPR compliance.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#143

Post by JohnFen »

extropy wrote: post #53
at-fates-hands wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We cannot, as a healthy internet, let Google control so much of the web. It's getting worse too. Back in the day, you could Google something for a manufacturer and include the name of the manufacturer like, "Pioneer 10" Subwoofer" and automatically the first result would be a like to Pioneer's subwoofer page or their main ecommerce site. You type that into Google today? You will get 15 results for AMAZON pages with…

IMO Google is doing the best they can to serve you relevant results, just that everyone and their uncle is spamming internet to get up in the ranking game. Think of modern google as a question answering machine not a serch engine. And do "Show me Pioneer 10 subwoofer manufacturer specs" instead of just jamming keywords and hoping for the best.

> IMO Google is doing the best they can to serve you relevant results

Maybe, but if so then they're singularly bad at it. Google consistently gives me worse results than DDG and Bing, anyway.

I really think it's because Google is trying to figure out what I "really mean" by my search queries, and it's really terrible at guessing.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#144

Post by SquareWheel »

JohnFen wrote: post #137
SquareWheel wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Releasing hundreds of open-source tools and donating protocols to standards bodies is really not what I would consider evil. The web is a thousand times better now than it was ten years ago. And despite the frequent misinformation, "Don't be evil" has never once left their code of conduct.

> The web is a thousand times better now than it was ten years ago. I disagree wholeheartedly. I think the web is much worse than it was ten years ago, and the trendline indicates that it will continue on that trajectory.

I find it significantly better as both a user and developer, but of course it is a subjective thing.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#145

Post by ronilan »

ronilan wrote: post #99
pushcx wrote: post #29

https://www.google.com/about/honestresults/ It's a little confusing to read now, so for context: at the time Google published this, it only put ads in the sidebar to the right of search results. This post was written to criticize the practice of putting ads atop search results, which competitors sometimes formatted almost indistinguishably from organic search results.

Your link is gold. A historic artifact. Amazing how clear the writing is, how simple the message. That’s, like, totally not the corpspeak Goog emits now on a daily basis. So, let’s do some digging. Earliest version of url dates back 4+ years. https://web.archive.org/web/20151213182805/https://www.googl... Things were a little better than, but not by much. This has to be earlier. Ah, here is: https://books.google.ca/b…

(And OT, or maybe not, as far as I can recall, AdWords was still CPM back then)

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#147

Post by justtopostthis3 »

SquareWheel wrote: post #88
ramraj07 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we're all poorer for it. They have taken a public service and molded into something that makes money for them and only for them. And all the while (maybe gradually) they've masqueraded as some benevolent philanthropy. The day "don't be evil" came off their motto is the day they conceded they are evil. At least as evil as any publicly trading company has to be.

Releasing hundreds of open-source tools and donating protocols to standards bodies is really not what I would consider evil. The web is a thousand times better now than it was ten years ago. And despite the frequent misinformation, "Don't be evil" has never once left their code of conduct.

> The web is a thousand times better now than it was ten years ago.

How?? For who??

The web in 2010: type something into Google, click first result, enjoy life

The web in 2020: type something into Google, try to figure out which results are ads, click several results before anything is useful, click through cookie disclaimer, refuse to allow notifications, decline to download the mobile app, attempt to dismiss surprise autoplay video that pops up once you scroll, except one of 30 scripts didn't load right or something so the popup's background stays covering up the page, disable javascript in frustration. Oops, now Cloudflare thinks you're a bot and all you're allowed to do on the web any more is teach Google's AI what traffic lights and crosswalks look like.

Re: Every Google result now looks like an ad

#148

Post by SkyBelow »

cco wrote: post #66
pb7 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evil is also subjective.

Only on the end closest to "neutral", past some arbitrary point your subjective opinion on evil stops mattering to people with morals.

Morals are also subjective. Take something pretty far on the other end of the spectrum, killing kids. Now compare to abortion. Lots of different people with lots of different views. What one sees as evil another would see the ban of it as evil.
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