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Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#141

Post by actuator »

jplayer01 wrote: post #123
actuator wrote: post #85

Does anyone remember how much time it took to nail down the cause of MH17 crash? If memory serves me right, during the MH17 shoot down over Ukraine it was established quite early that it was a work of a surface to air missile launched by rebels. If Iran did really shoot down the plane by mistake, can they cover it up by not giving access to the debris?

The US has plenty of detection capability for missiles, such as how they tracked the ballistic missiles earlier. As in the Ukraine case, I'm sure they'll be more than willing to share the missile trajectory sooner rather than later if there is one (they shared the Ukraine one 5 days after the crash). I'm not sure how trustworthy it'll be, but that's something I'm waiting for as the situation develops.

Aren't all those tracking systems mostly ground based. But Saudi Arabia and its neighbors do provide proximity to Iran so I guess they should be able to catch it.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#142

Post by JumpCrisscross »

sschueller wrote: post #84
frogger23124 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The 737-800 is a Boeing from a different era. Proper engineering.

But it was built 3 years ago. Does proper engineering prevent future failures if the assembly process becomes flawed at a later time? For example using cheaper materials, ignoring cracks, not properly training new employees etc.

> Does proper engineering prevent future failures

No. Never.

The plane could have had a defect. The parts could have had a defect. Maintenance could have caused damage.

Or, the machine was perfect. It just hit the wrong number of birds at the wrong angle. Or experienced one of countless random errors that can take down a good plane.

(It could also be malice.)

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#143

Post by cjbprime »

spease wrote: post #23
nickserv wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be a very easy investigation: "pilot error". This way there's no need to dig any deeper.

Is there actually any kind of believable “pilot error” that can cause a passenger 737-800 to catch fire in the air and crash?

> Is there actually any kind of believable “pilot error” that can cause a passenger 737-800 to catch fire in the air and crash?

Yes, here's one (on an A300) where pilot error while operating the rudder sheared off the vertical stabilizer and caused a crash:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_587

There were reports of an explosion/fire in the air, as the plane pulled itself apart.

> The crash was witnessed by hundreds of people, 349 of whom gave accounts of what they saw to the NTSB. About half (52%) reported a fire or explosion before the plane hit the ground. Others stated that they saw a wing detach from the aircraft, when in fact it was the vertical stabilizer.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#144

Post by joering2 »

actuator wrote: post #91

Btw, @dang. It would be better if we change the title to say Boeing 737-800 just to emphasise this is a different plane than Max.

I also count at least 2 other people who submit this story monents after it broke by admins decided to kill it. ubsure why.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#147

Post by cm2187 »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #15

A three year old Boeing 737-800, which does not have any known safety issues. It feels deeply implausible that this airplane would simply crash due to mechanical issues two minutes after taking off from Tehran just hours after Iran retaliated against the United States's assassination of General Qassem Soleimani, but then again there was also an earthquake in Iran just a few hours ago, so I guess maybe these things ju…

It’s going to be hard to remove the suspicion. The investigation will probably be run by an Iranian authority. I doubt the NTSB will be invited in the current climate. How credible will be its finding? Usually in this case a neutral third party is invited (like France’s BEA). But pretty much all western countries are being threaten by Iran now.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#148

Post by tempsy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #137
tempsy wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is the point of this being the top post on HN then if there’s no point to speculation? What are people supposed to be commenting for, really?

> What are people supposed to be commenting for, really? I don't know. And I don't have to know. Just because one can't come up with a value-adding comment doesn't require the content be censored. Nor does it mean the void should be filled with nonsense.

comments shouldn’t be censored because you’re personally allergic to speculation

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#149

Post by aaron695 »

Iran used Fateh-313 surface-to-surface missiles in the recent attacks, some media reported they launched 313 missiles which got to they launched hundreds of missile.

But if the footage is real it was not a malfunction. Planes don't catch in fire in the air like that.

But not sure if the footage is old rehashed footage yet or not.

Re: Iran crash: Ukrainian passenger plane crashes with 170 on board

#150

Post by saberdancer »

dirtyid wrote: post #136
saberdancer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it looks like Ukrainian embassy in Teheran reported to Ukraine what Iranians told them. This then gets repeated in Ukrainian media, picked up by western media and we have a story how Ukrainian embassy says it's not a missile. I doubt they know for sure at this moment. There is no way anyone can know cause of the crash unless if it was shot down or bombed (in that case the missile comanders and/or terrorists wou…

>There is no way anyone can know cause of the crash unless if it was shot down or bombed (in that case the missile comanders and/or terrorists would know). There's enough surveillance on Iranian airspace after the missile launches that every state-actor with the capability in the region should be able to determine whether the plane was shot down.

Exactly. Now we wait. The wreckage will be able to tell a lot as well, I'm no crash investigator but if it was a missile the shrapnel will leave visible marks.
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