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Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

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Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#141

Post by segfaultbuserr »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #123
nl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was a sarcastic comment. Obviously "reproducing the ultrasonics" don't actually matter for music reproduction....

In all honesty, I'd like a system that could play and record ultrasound.

> Inaudible ultrasonics contribute to intermodulation distortion in the audible range. Systems not designed to reproduce ultrasonics typically have much higher levels of distortion above 20 kHz, further contributing to intermodulation. Widening a design's frequency range to account for ultrasonics requires compromises that decrease noise and distortion performance within the audible spectrum. Either way, unneccessary reproduction of ultrasonic content diminishes performance.

- Christopher "Monty" Montgomery, the original author of the Ogg codec, founder of the Xiph.org Foundation, a real audio engineer.

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#142

Post by TeMPOraL »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #141
TeMPOraL wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty, I'd like a system that could play and record ultrasound.

> Inaudible ultrasonics contribute to intermodulation distortion in the audible range. Systems not designed to reproduce ultrasonics typically have much higher levels of distortion above 20 kHz, further contributing to intermodulation. Widening a design's frequency range to account for ultrasonics requires compromises that decrease noise and distortion performance within the audible spectrum. Either way, unneccessary…

I don't need it for music. I want to record ultrasound from the environment, and possibly play signals of my own.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#143

Post by WalterBright »

noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

My Carver amp and Dahlquist speakers I run all day every day. Bought them in 1980.

I retired many computers in the 80's and 90's in perfect working order. None of them will power up today.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#144

Post by echelon »

This could go very bad for Sonos.

Imagine a virus that looks for Sonos devices on a network and bricks them all via "recycle mode"!

The API probably isn't even locked down. I think it's unauthenticated SOAP/UPnP.

An even dumber attack: guests with your wifi credentials can download the Sonos app and break your gear. It's entirely unauthenticated.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#145

Post by hermitdev »

smacktoward wrote: post #87
walrus01 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it, and have to keep your subscription going so the seller don't remotely brick your device. This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. I…

It's also the direction Microsoft has been slowly moving Windows. You think it'd be bad if your router stopped working when you stopped paying, imagine the same scenario for your operating system.

MS is very aggressive with this in their Windows 10 development VM images you can download. Theyre free, but they only last 3 months. There doesnt appear to be anyway to activate - even if you have a legit license key through my.visualstudio.com.

The VM prebuilt with VStudio, Visual Studio Code, WSL w/ Ubuntu and other goodies in a prebuilt image is attractive and a time saver. But, it's immediately on a kill switch timer of about 3 months, if you download while new. Current image expires in Feb 2020.

I was using this to connect to work in a VPN in an effort to keep work and personal separate, but I'll have to burn a Win10 license key from my subscription for a new VM.

Caveat: the expiration doesnt render the image entirely worthless, but it will only stay up for around 90 mins before shutting down without warning.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#146

Post by legopelle »

wayoutthere wrote: post #30
reeddavid wrote: post #23

What a total waste. Apparel companies are starting to participate in the secondary market for their used gear, why can't Sonos do something similar? Examples: - Patagonia Worn Wear ( https://wornwear.patagonia.com ) - REI Used Gear ( https://www.rei.com/used/shop/gear ) - Arc'teryx Rock Solid ( https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com ) As it stands, Sonos is effectively buying their old speakers and then throwing them away. C…

Then they would have to continue supporting those devices, which isn’t part of the planned obsolescence business model. It would also dilute the luxury brand halo that Sonos has tried to cultivate. It’s more like Louis Vuitton getting into the secondhand market. They too would (and do) destroy merchandise rather than let it get sold at a discount and dilute the brand value.

But still, why not say so directly? Why lie about sustainability? It seems extremely dishonest.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#147

Post by codedokode »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #138
nl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this was a sarcastic comment. Obviously "reproducing the ultrasonics" don't actually matter for music reproduction....

Of course it's a sarcastic comment, and I know it when I was comment. It seems that it was you, who are unfamiliar with its background and implication. "Reproducing the ultrasonics" here is a sarcastic reference to any sampling rate higher than 24 kHz (it actually backs back well before digital music). Audiophiles often prefer it because it's claimed that it has a wider frequency response, a lower quantization noise…

When recording audio, it is necessary to filter our frequencies above Nyquist frequency to prevent aliasing. It is easier to make a good filter when you have Nyquist freq. at 48 kHz rather than try to implement a filter that can silence everything above 24 kHz and doesn't touch anything below 20 kHz. Or am I wrong here?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#148

Post by emmelaich »

noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

Absolutely! I have a 1999 Sony amp and some older (1980s) Wharfedale speakers.

Nothing I've bought in the last 25 years sounds remotely as good as them.

And plugging in a Chromecast audio has given it immortality.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#149

Post by blackflame »

jellicle wrote: post #134
userbinator wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed. People's ears have not changed, and the ability to reproduce sound has been nearly perfected. If you're not too picky/audiophillic, like most people, the requirements are even lower.

Literally the only "improvements" that are ever going to happen to audio in your lifetime will be a) internetifying it and b) adding more restrictions to how you use it. We've hit peak audio (best reproduction, no restrictions on usage) and it's only downhill from here. I look forward to my 2025 speakers that only work for an hour a day unless I pay for extra time credits. "Do you wish to play a) music b) music and l…

What about things like Dolby atmos that use 3D noise wave cancellation/amplification technology to effectively do to surround sound what 3D glasses did for the TV

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#150

Post by m-p-3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #129
baybal2 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Disposable electronics" is a big trend too. I myself saw not so few times devices that used rechargeable batteries, and a charging circuitry , but nevertheless were single use only. A lot of Bluetooth "beacons" are of such construction, and not so cheap at all medical devices will be coming second.

Reminds me of a certain very well known startup in beacon space. I visited them some 6 years ago, back when they were finishing their fist product - a nice-looking battery-powered Bluetooth beacon, completely encased in some kind of silicone. I asked them, well, what's the expected time until battery is completely discharged, and how do I charge it back or replace it? And the answers were, a year or three (depending…

Are you aware of any beacons like these that can be inductively charged, let's say with a Qi charger?

I get that you want to keep them as small as possible (and disposable so that you buy more..), but the environmental cost behind that is too heavy IMO.

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