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How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

markosaric.com

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Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#141

Post by tyingq »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #137
tyingq wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may consider that we do understand pre-render, but don't like the trade-off involved. A full on AOL style walled garden could be even faster. It could mandate brotli, force a common css base, only offer one kind of ad platform, etc. Should we go there?

The person I was responding to said that AMP was fast for a reason other than prerendering. That's wrong. Prerendering is the main point of AMP, which is what I pointed out in my comment. A full AOL style walled garden is what Apple News and Facebook Instant Articles are. AMP enables the same speed in a way that any link aggregator can take advantage of without having to strike deals with individual publishers.

I agree with your literal statements, but Google does abuse AMP. The way they hijack left/right swipe and the back button for carousel loaded pages is ample evidence for me. It's very clearly not my content any more when you steal the top X pixels and hijack user interactions.

AMP also requires I include a Google owned and controlled piece of JavaScript that they can change at any time. That's literally in the "standard". In fact, a bad update borked all AMP pages for quite a while some time ago.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#143

Post by lern_too_spel »

tyingq wrote: post #141
lern_too_spel wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person I was responding to said that AMP was fast for a reason other than prerendering. That's wrong. Prerendering is the main point of AMP, which is what I pointed out in my comment. A full AOL style walled garden is what Apple News and Facebook Instant Articles are. AMP enables the same speed in a way that any link aggregator can take advantage of without having to strike deals with individual publishers.

I agree with your literal statements, but Google does abuse AMP. The way they hijack left/right swipe and the back button for carousel loaded pages is ample evidence for me. It's very clearly not my content any more when you steal the top X pixels and hijack user interactions. AMP also requires I include a Google owned and controlled piece of JavaScript that they can change at any time. That's literally in the "stand…

> The way they hijack left/right swipe and the back button for carousel loaded pages

This doesn't happen for me on any of my Android browsers. The problem is likely with your browser. I wouldn't be surprised if Chrome on iOS is buggy just like every other browser available for iOS.

> AMP also requires I include a Google owned and controlled piece of JavaScript that they can change at any time

If you don't want your page to load instantly from Google, Bing, and other link aggregators, don't use it. Same with Apple News, which has more ornery integration requirements. I, as a user, will simply skip over your links to find faster ones. If you don't give users what they want, what do you expect will happen?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#144

Post by tyingq »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #143
tyingq wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your literal statements, but Google does abuse AMP. The way they hijack left/right swipe and the back button for carousel loaded pages is ample evidence for me. It's very clearly not my content any more when you steal the top X pixels and hijack user interactions. AMP also requires I include a Google owned and controlled piece of JavaScript that they can change at any time. That's literally in the "stand…

> The way they hijack left/right swipe and the back button for carousel loaded pages This doesn't happen for me on any of my Android browsers. The problem is likely with your browser. I wouldn't be surprised if Chrome on iOS is buggy just like every other browser available for iOS. > AMP also requires I include a Google owned and controlled piece of JavaScript that they can change at any time If you don't want your p…

Yeah...my Google controlled browser that has dominant market share. Don't think Google wouldn't hijack on other browsers if they thought they could get away with it.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#145

Post by Kaiyou »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #64
Mirioron wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I think plenty of people have found Mozilla to have made some poor decisions over the years. It feels as though you have to choose between two options that aren't great, so is there a point in switching? Take the add ons situation. At least on Chrome I can run my own add ons.

> I think plenty of people have found Mozilla to have made some poor decisions over the years. It kills me that someone would be pissed at Mozilla for adding pocket, Chrome comes with so many damn Google centric plugins, and one little useful utility you can remove is what makes you lose it over Firefox? Come on.

Pocket really isn't the problem. Mozilla only has made bad decisions since 2011 without ever learning from any of their many, many, many mistakes.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#146

Post by rstupek »

sergiotapia wrote: post #28
whb07 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well no, not really? Perhaps you could imagine a world where it default loads a smaller file and right underneath there is a link to a larger file? This used to be a more common thing...

This is _literally_ what people do to game the paint speed of websites for Chrome Lighthouse tests. They render a Loading so it gets a paint score of 100, then when their behemoth js app finishes loading+parsing it removes this dom element.

This is literally every WIX site on the web. 100% javascript rendered site.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#147

Post by Avamander »

brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

DDG is worse than Google for me and totally useless for any searches in my native language.

Firefox has 50% worse performance for me in WebGL applications. Media isn't also accelerated still on Linux. Where is the "awesomeness" in that? I really wish those caveats didn't exist for what I use daily.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#148

Post by markosaric »

DCKing wrote: post #107
brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

> STOP USING google SEARCH! USE DUCKDUCKGO! I want to stop using Google, but please realize that DuckDuckGo is only competitive with Google if English is your only language (maybe even only if you're American?). There are loads and loads of people on HN for whom DDG is a poor experience. In my experience DDG is extremely poor for localized results, especially those in other languages than English. Previously I recomm…

How's Qwant for you? I've been using them more frequently recently. It's made in the EU (France) but as I don't search much in other languages than English I'm not sure how good they are for that.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#149

Post by behringer »

vb6sp6 wrote: post #133
behringer wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

considering ram has always been the cheapest part of any computer for the last 2 or 3 decades, this argument is really lame. Oh no your computer needs ram? So go buy some...

lots of ram is soldered on making cheap upgrades impossible

So your solution is let's use an ad supported browser?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#150

Post by LoSboccacc »

prophesi wrote: post #72
LoSboccacc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firefox is awesome. it is doing great now, but lost a great deal of marketshare precisely because it was a slow, bloated mess > FF dev tools are awesome. debatable. chrome hot code replace in debug is a great asset. mounting a local workspace to synchronize changes is situational, but when you can leverage it it's great. firefox code view's "find in files" only search linked javascript, chrome search everywhere so…

Do you actually use firefox for your personal usage? FF Quantum hit the stage two years ago. Performance is now a moot point; they've had plenty of time to recoup on any market share losses from that with the new Quantum branding. And they've been releasing dope features for the dev tools with almost every release. Check out this especially feature-rich release: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/12/firefox-71-a-year-end…

> Performance is now a moot point

yeah, I even said it

>> it is doing great now

> they've had plenty of time to recoup on any market share losses from that with the new Quantum branding.

don't let fact get in the way of a feel good opinion, I guess

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#/m...

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