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Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

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Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#141

Post by salawat »

crazygringo wrote: post #50

The title sounds intentionally provocative -- "face scanned" appears to be just "have their photo taken". I can't find a single source that suggests anything more than that. Which isn't much different from having your photo taken for your driver's license, passport, or at the border, all of which the US does. Burner phones are mostly associated with criminal activity, so tying phones to identities feels like a legiti…

>The title sounds intentionally provocative -- "face scanned" appears to be just "have their photo taken". I can't find a single source that suggests anything more than that.

That's all you need for a face scan. You really don't understand how biometrics work do you? You just need a straight on mugshot.

>Burner phones are mostly associated with criminal activity, so tying phones to identities feels like a legitimate function -- which many countries do.

No, mobile prepaid phones are associated with activity where one does not wish to enter onto a full on Know-Your-Customer like relationship to their network. It is completely legitimate. China is just finding an excuse to try to collect biometrics associated with something basically every citizen is going to need to get by.

>If you're concerned with privacy, that's what encrypted communications are for, and if you don't want to be tracked by radio, then don't take any phone with you.

If you don't like the smog, you can just stop breathing. Just saying. If you don't like driver's licenses, you can just take a rickshaw across the country. Just saying. If you don't like the reeducation camps...

When one flippantly dismisses the costs one's policy decisions will enact on one's countrymen, civilization is lost. Given government policy implemented so far, forgive me if I find the motives and applications of this information to be downright worrisome.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#142

Post by officeplant »

throw476543 wrote: post #72

At first I got the impression a photo was required when buying a new cellphone, but this appears to be just for new numbers. China already requires an ID to get a number, so I don’t see how requiring a photo will help them track people even more? Maybe it gives them an updated photo? However, if you don’t get a new number every few years, then it’s useless. My own country requires a photo ID to get a number and I’ve…

Photo's on a resume is still a pretty strange request in America because it factors into possible discrimination.

However identification is required in the US only when starting a contract phone servie (for Credit inquiries). If you don't want your name attached to the phone number it has to be prepaid. Which always made me chuckle considering the two most common people to give us obviously fake names for prepaid phones were drug dealers and police. I've had days working in phone retail where someone came in and started a prepaid line under "John Doe" and paid for it out of a roll of 100's in their sock. Then an hour later I've got an officer in uniform handing me a name and address he needs put on a cheap burner prepaid phone.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#143

Post by rodneyzeng »

devy wrote: post #110

Just offering another perspective than most others had done here: I grew up in China and have been in China a few times in the past 10 years - the amount of Robocalls and phone scams was overwhelming (in fact, it was so bad that dual SIM mobile phones became popular because you can have a disposable SIM card for non-essential website registrations and one for family members that you keep private use). I had my identi…

True but it will from the first moment go to political motivated move for sure.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#144

Post by mcv »

datashow wrote: post #135
devy wrote: post #110

Just offering another perspective than most others had done here: I grew up in China and have been in China a few times in the past 10 years - the amount of Robocalls and phone scams was overwhelming (in fact, it was so bad that dual SIM mobile phones became popular because you can have a disposable SIM card for non-essential website registrations and one for family members that you keep private use). I had my identi…

I think you gave too much benefit of doubt to the CCP. The CCP can't care less about phone scams and frauds. As a totalitarian state having total control of the society, the government can track down the scammers anytime they want to. There is no reason to believe the CCP does this to solve the robocalls or phone scams. It would be laughable to think XiJinping and his gangs put this issue on his priority list. The on…

We call them "totalitarian", but that doesn't mean the state actually has total control over society. Society is still made up of people. In totalitarian systems, there's still crime and corruption. They may get harshly punished, but the police still needs to uncover it first, and that takes time and resources, and may not always be easy.

Take the Pooh Bear jokes about Xi. He'd love to be able to stop them, but he can't. There's a limit to how total the government's control can be. And with China's capitalist liberalisation, scams and fraud become more attractive, and possibly harder to track down.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#145

Post by andy9775 »

mc32 wrote: post #138
datashow wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you gave too much benefit of doubt to the CCP. The CCP can't care less about phone scams and frauds. As a totalitarian state having total control of the society, the government can track down the scammers anytime they want to. There is no reason to believe the CCP does this to solve the robocalls or phone scams. It would be laughable to think XiJinping and his gangs put this issue on his priority list. The on…

I’m curious about one thing here. And maybe someone has ideas. Both China and Soviet Union (probably others too but I don’t know), pre-liberalization were your typical socialist state with lots of means to control people, so they did but... but people didn’t engage in much petty crime or gang crime. Those types of crimes were more or less very unusual. But in those same states today with more tools to control people,…

Of course they did. Parents grew up in a former communist country and smuggling in goods, stealing, were all pretty common. The reason you don't hear about it is because if people did those things that would mean that communism is bad and doesn't work. I wouldn't trust the data coming out of a communist country.

During the chernobyl disaster the USSR kept providing false numbers to the world in order to downplay the significance of the event - to the point of sabotaging the cleanup effort and themselves.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#146

Post by vbezhenar »

aplummer wrote: post #25
classichasclass wrote: post #24

Not that there's any moral equivalence, but when I'm in Australia visiting in-laws, I have to provide my passport or similar ID to get my PAYG SIM activated. I just have them swipe it at the airport and my SIM is on in 10 minutes. My wife admits it's a lot easier in the States to get a PAYG SIM; AT&T doesn't care who she is as long as there's money in the account. I'm not sure why Australia does that, but it's really…

It's to track crimes associated with burner sims. * Not trying to justify it either direction.

I wonder does it help? I'm sure that it's easy to find some homeless person, who don't know you and register SIM for his ID.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#147

Post by vbezhenar »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #89
jen20 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does not mean that usage is monitored, and usage is the important privacy aspect. I think one would have to be especially naive to believe that an ID requirement is in place without any provision for usage monitoring.

Do you think someone is monitoring your landline?

It's incredibly easy nowadays. Compressed voice takes very little to archive. Speech recognition allows to index everything. I don't believe that every government does not do this.

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#149

Post by mc32 »

andy9775 wrote: post #145
mc32 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious about one thing here. And maybe someone has ideas. Both China and Soviet Union (probably others too but I don’t know), pre-liberalization were your typical socialist state with lots of means to control people, so they did but... but people didn’t engage in much petty crime or gang crime. Those types of crimes were more or less very unusual. But in those same states today with more tools to control people,…

Of course they did. Parents grew up in a former communist country and smuggling in goods, stealing, were all pretty common. The reason you don't hear about it is because if people did those things that would mean that communism is bad and doesn't work. I wouldn't trust the data coming out of a communist country. During the chernobyl disaster the USSR kept providing false numbers to the world in order to downplay the…

Yes they had to fib and lie about production and all their 5-year Plans... but on the other hand most police in those states were unarmed (of course the sentences for being an armed criminal were “prohibitive”)...

Re: Chinese telecoms must use "AI and other technical means" to identify phone users

#150

Post by yorwba »

usaar333 wrote: post #36

I'm confused about the enforcement here. I just bought a temporary sim from https://www.3gsolutions.com.cn (which I've used multiple times before when visiting) and didn't provide any id.

The SIM you bought was almost certainly registered by an employee of the company. Unless you do something that makes the authorities want to find the person behind your phone number, it's unlikely they'll get in trouble.
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