Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas • Hacker News Board

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#141

Post by Mountain_Skies » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

scurvy wrote: post #39

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the exodus goes from a trickle to a torrent, the city budget propped up by property taxes is going to crater. Whatever problems there are now with homelessness, imagine what it will be like when social services can no longer be provided for them. San Francisco is a ship that lost power to its engines while coasting towards an iceberg.

You must not live in the Bay Area and are merely reaching for talking points. Everyone in CA knows that property tax money goes straight to the state and is divvied up there. It's collected locally, then sent straight to the state. CA gets first crack at spending it, then it goes down to the local level. The social services are paid for mostly by bond measures, which are immune to real estate prices. Other things are…

Didn't know property taxes go to the state first but the overall point remains that if there is an exodus of wealth from the Bay Area, that will affect the resources available for social programs. Also stories about companies and workers leaving the state beyond the Bay Area are hardly in short supply though some might be overdone for clickbait or political purposes.

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#142

Post by CydeWeys » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

sdnlafkjh34rw wrote: post #101

CydeWeys wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And traffic out the wazoo, and few good alternatives to driving.

The traffic in Texas is significantly better than SF and LA. My parents live in a suburb that is 25 miles from the Houston and it takes 45 minutes to get to downtown during commute hours. My girlfriend has an equivalent commute in the Bay which takes around 75-90 minutes during commute hours. The public transit is terrible in Texas so I expect it will be worse than the Bay in a decade or two if they refuse to build u…

Texas is significantly worse than SF for anyone who doesn't have a car. There aren't good alternatives to driving to get around there.

The traffic principally affects you if you drive, hence why Texas is often worse even now than SF.

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#143

Post by sdnlafkjh34rw » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #131

sdnlafkjh34rw wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High property taxes are one of the most liberal policies of Texas. It's a progressive tax that is largely shouldered by rich landowners and the revenue form a large part of budget for public school systems. I'm not sure why people in California love our regressive Prop 13 tax rebates that largely benefit the wealthy and are a cause of huge budget deficits. Prop 13 is the most Republican policy we have in our state.

If high property taxes are liberal - why wouldn’t high taxes on other forms of wealth be beneficial?

When did I say high taxes on on other forms of wealth wouldn't be beneficial? I totally support taxes on wealth to build social programs.

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#144

Post by 0xffff2 » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

nickthemagicman wrote: post #129

Why does Schwab still exist when there's free trading nowdays?

Schwab offers commission free trades now.

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#145

Post by Mountain_Skies » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #34

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the exodus goes from a trickle to a torrent, the city budget propped up by property taxes is going to crater. Whatever problems there are now with homelessness, imagine what it will be like when social services can no longer be provided for them. San Francisco is a ship that lost power to its engines while coasting towards an iceberg.

It would need to be a real big exodus for property tax revenues to go down. Prop 13 limits and associated low turn property turnover means a large amount of the tax roll is assessed under current value. During the 2008 real estate crash, few of the California counties saw a decrease in property tax revenues.

Wouldn't property turnover be high if there is an exodus?

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#146

Post by samfisher83 » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 5:58 PM UTC

xyst wrote: post #103

mikece wrote: post #10

To where in Texas are they moving? The non-paid version of the WSJ article doesn’t say. I keep hearing that in massive influx of tech companies to the Austin area has driven up housing rates and congestion to absurd levels. Probably won’t be long before tech companies skip Austin for cities like Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio.

Companies won’t skip out on Austin. They would be missing out on top tier talent from UT and surrounding schools. Reason why Schwab is moving to Dallas (specifically Westlake) is because this is determined to be the next financial district (a majority of financial companies have satellite corporate offices in this specific area) FYI: Schwab has had an existence in the 512 for some years now and in the recent years ex…

A large chunk of the kids who go to UT are from houston and dallas. Austin is a really small city if you have been there. It would fit like in a quarter of Houston.

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#147

Post by godzillabrennus » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

blackflame wrote: post #118

jdavis703 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they'll be keeping a sizable amount of staff in SF still. SF has a gross receipts tax on certain companies with HQ's in the city. As such auditors will want to ensure this isn't just a tax avoidance gimmick. By pairing this move with an acquisition Charles Schwab has a stronger defense against such an accusation.

When will the people of SF learn you cannot tax yourself to prosperity

When they move to Texas.

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#148

Post by nthomas » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #43

nthomas wrote: post #7

Welcome to the Lone Star State! Cheap real estate and friendly folks. And BBQ, metric tons of BBQ...

>"Cheap real estate" And the highest property tax rate in the nation.

Fair point, but my wife and I bough at $1600 sqft home on a nice large lot in a decent neighb when we were in grad school (College Station, TX). We paid $120K and had P+I of $400. Sure, taxes added a couple hundred bucks, but it was still a fraction of California. We interviewed at Livermore labs during that time and the same home was about $1M.

We stayed here (she still at university as a professor), and I left to co-found a startup. Still pretty cheap real estate, affluent & educated population (of all political leanings), and endless supply of smart folks to hire. And BBQ. I'll take it.

Though I love California too, just returned from a week in Big Sur and then the wine country. It's just must cheaper to visit :)

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#149

Post by crikli » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #113

zer00eyz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing and taxes in CA are close to oppressive. The housing situation will not change unless CA voters agree to a change in property taxes and they won't. I would also bet that the move will come at the expense of Texas tax payers and to the benefit of Schwabb.

Aren’t taxes highly regressive in Texas with sky high property taxes which exempt rich people ?

The property taxes are sky high, yes, but they most definitely do not exempt the rich. There is no state income tax. I wouldn’t call the state’s general tax structure progressive or regressive.

Re: Schwab Leaves San Francisco for Texas

#150

Post by jdavis703 » Sat, Nov 30, 2019, 6:01 PM UTC

throwGuardian wrote: post #134

jdavis703 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they'll be keeping a sizable amount of staff in SF still. SF has a gross receipts tax on certain companies with HQ's in the city. As such auditors will want to ensure this isn't just a tax avoidance gimmick. By pairing this move with an acquisition Charles Schwab has a stronger defense against such an accusation.

Tax avoidance "scam". Moving to Texas to reduce taxes, especially SF taxes which are basically useless to the payer [1], [2] is a "scam"? What's the legal framework preventing moves out of SF? Is it indentured slavery to the city council if you ever open an office in SF? [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-pub... [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2019/04/15/map...

The problem is perception. If a company seems to only move their headquarters in name only (IOW most of the staff still stays in SF), then that seems sketchy. If they make a clean separation and shutdown their SF presence, that doesn't appear as dodgy.

And these companies are not just moving to Texas. I live in Oakland, CA and many of these companies are relocating here. I don't care if they leave SF, but if they're cheating on their taxes, that's just not right.