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Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

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Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#141

Post by iudqnolq »

degenerate wrote: post #77
onion2k wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be editorial judgement about whether or not something is worth publishing. That is not, and shouldn't be, a quantitative threshold.

That editorial judgement is exactly why most articles with no actual content are published in the first place - " We need to beef up this headline so it reaches more people " Correct headline would have been " A handful of Fitbit users are... " but it wouldn't get clicks. The editors are to blame most of the time for doing a disservice to their readers.

That's essentially what the article title ("some fitbit users") said before OP truncated it.

Credit https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21573658

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#142

Post by knzhou »

onion2k wrote: post #60
MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? There's nothing wrong with reporting that a small number of people are publicly announcing that they're binning their Fitbit devices. They are, and they weren't before, so that's news. Are you suggesting there should be threshold an event should have to pass before it becomes newsworthy? Who wou…

A threshold is a good thing, because if you can be entirely selective in your reporting, then you can convince people of any narrative you want. This is the Chinese robber fallacy [0].

0: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chin...

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#143

Post by npongratz »

mscasts wrote: post #61

Pro tip for Fitbit users that want a great alternative: https://www.withings.com/

At first glance, these products looked compelling. But how is Withings actually any better? Per https://www.withings.com/us/en/legal/privacy-policy:

>"How do we use your personal data?

...

>Marketing, advertising and making recommendations[.] Your personal data may be used to offer surveys, competitions, discount coupons or events in which you are free to participate. We may provide you with information on our Products, such as new features, sales offers from Withings or our partners, or to announce new Products. You may opt out of marketing offers by logging into your Withings account and managing your notification preferences.

...

>Modification of the present Policy[.] Withings may modify the present Policy with or without previous notice, block the access to the website, or change its access conditions "

Will all due respect: eff that. As others have noted here and elsewhere, marketing and advertising -- especially that using my personal data -- is adversarial.

I paid for a thing, just let me have that thing.

And before anyone unhelpfully suggests, "they have an opt-out policy"... well, we all understand that once your intimate, valuable data is siphoned off your wrist, the horse has left the barn, right? That genie is out of the bottle, that bell has rung, and all kinds of other euphemisms that illustrate how the data is no longer in your control, and all the opt-outs in the world are not going to actually delete all your data. It's been forked to Utah, backed up, sharded, "anonymized" and combined with all the other data you've generated on devices sold by other companies -- for every single "partner" that paid them, as well as everyone who did not pay them, in the cases of Utah and corporate espionage.

An actual alternative would be a device that has no connectivity to my pocket surveillance slab or anything with an uncontrollable baseband processor, nor connectivity to the Internet generally. Let me be in actual control.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm sticking with my Casio dumbwatch. Doesn't peep on my daily activities, but it accurately tells time and I love that thing. Bonus is that I have to think about its battery only once a decade.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#144

Post by Tomte »

pcroh wrote: post #112
pmarreck wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never felt harmed or threatened by the idea that my anonymized data (health or otherwise) is being used by large organizations... assuming it is anonymized. As far as I can see, there are many good uses of this data (some potentially profitable, such as selling to health insurance companies so they can better price their products and evaluate risks) and very few bad uses of this data. Can someone please clarif…

Just look at this, this guy says "no I'm not getting rid of mine" and he just gets downvoted, hahaha

He‘s being downvoted because he‘s insinuating that all those people deleting their data are not using reason and are just peddling conspiracy theories.

Without that part he wouldn‘t have been downvoted nearly as much.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#145

Post by toraobo »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

> Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few?

If they were truly privacy conscious they wouldn't have a twitter anyway.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#146

Post by SilkRoadie »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

I stopped using my Fitbit the day they were acquired. Didn't feel the need to tweet or exclaim about it. You may be surprised at the total number.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#147

Post by jrockway »

acollins1331 wrote: post #9

Fitbit is a terrible product. Enjoy paying smart watch prices for a tiny screen that tells you your heart rate.

I have a watch with gears in it that only tells me the time. It cost more than an Apple Watch, too. How stupid of me!

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#148

Post by alleyshack »

nevir wrote: post #96

After having worked at Google, it is the only company I actually do trust with my data. (But I am also ok with them using it to customize my experience, and even target ads) Their internal privacy controls are extensive. As a human, it is nearly impossible to access someone's data, even when debugging code/ML models/etc. And when you do need to, it requires exhaustive oversight/approval, and _everything_ is audited.

I'm an Xoogler who worked on the privacy team a few years ago. All of this is true, and at the time I worked there, I made the conscious, considered decision to buy in to the Google data collection ecosystem because I trusted the people I worked with to protect my data.

Several years out, I no longer trust Google - not because I trust my former (immediate) coworkers less, but because the direction the entire advertising/data science industry is taking as a whole is deeply concerning to me. I disagree with almost all of it on principle, and am no longer comfortable supporting it by allowing unfettered collection of my personal data, regardless of who is doing the collecting or how much they promise not to sell my data.

(Companies were never "selling" data anyway - they were using it themselves, sharing it with their partners without an explicit sale, and otherwise doing things with it that I don't approve of which do not meet the strict definition of "sale".)

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#149

Post by stevenwoo »

mavsman wrote: post #86
vader1 wrote: post #37

I bought a Garmin the day Fitbit sold out and haven't touched the Fitbit since. I'm very happy with the switch, the Garmin (Vivosmart 4) app and device are actually better than Fitbit's on almost every account, so that's a double win :) The only unfortunate consequence is that Garmin's import service only imports very coarse data from your Fitbit export, so all detailed historic records are lost unless you manually d…

Any idea how data exporting is with the Vivosmart 4? I thought about getting one but one of my main use cases for getting a fitness tracker is exporting data and then creating custom visualizations from it. I haven't dug into this world much yet but curious what the best hardware would be for this use case.

Like the sibling comment mentions, there is a free Garmin Connect online service that lets you upload the data via bluetooth to your phone and then your phone transmits it to the Garmin server. From there the way I use it is to automatically send it to my Strava account (it's my only active social media account) and manually I download the raw data file from Garmin's Connect website to my PC so I can import it into Golden Cheetah for some analysis and personal backup. One could directly download the file from most devices to your laptop via wire or bluetooth, but that may not be as convenient as doing everything electronically. Also, I've actually worn out several USB connectors on fitness devices just from plugging/unplugging over the years so avoiding using physical ports for data transfers is a priority for me.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#150

Post by unknown2374 »

toraobo wrote: post #145
MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

> Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? If they were truly privacy conscious they wouldn't have a twitter anyway.

There is a big difference between the information you make public and information that you want to keep private. If you are using Twitter to express opinions publicly only, then there is little point in caring about how they deal with data you chose to make public to the entire world.

Direct messaging and protected tweets are a different story though, but your statement is objectively wrong.

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