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Why is everyone a bank?

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Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#141

Post by briandear »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #40
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). YMMV, but there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get those funds within seconds (if I'm adequately authenticated). With a wire, I can get it same day (if executed by ~3pm eastern). I shouldn't need to pay for a wire, or talk to a human unless a fraud signal was detected. I'm not a hedg…

You should see how easy it is to do these things in the Netherlands. No charge to wire money to an individual or business. No transaction cost for paying by card. Pay online with ideal for 0%, just scan qr code with bank app. Simple and easy.

There is no transaction cost to pay with a card in the US either. ACS transfers are free and, if you have the right account, wires can be free as well. I bet at that Netherlands bank a non-SEPA wire isn’t free. There are plenty of options for “good” bank accounts in the US, they just aren’t always obvious.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#142

Post by thundergolfer »

Apocryphon wrote: post #76
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #56

Everyone is a bank today for the same reason everyone was a social network in the 00's. A few startups started encroaching into financial services territory, took all the risk (including regulatory), and now that it's clear it's something worth pursuing Big Tech is following, expecting to leverage their existing products/services/ecosystem to lock you in by yet another aspect your life.

As the engineer and writer Alex Payne put it, these startups represent “the field offices of a large distributed workforce assembled by venture capitalists and their associate institutions,” doing low-overhead, low-risk R&D for five corporate giants. In such a system, the real disillusionment isn’t the discovery that you’re unlikely to become a billionaire; it’s the realization that your feeling of autonomy is a fant…

That’s an interesting perspective. Related to it, I often feel like entrepreneurs in tech don’t realise how much their innovation is restricted by capital markets.

OP’s startup is actually a great example of this. Medical debt is indeed a troubling problem in the USA, but OP’s solution is yet another financial product, something that can get funded. VCs can’t fund single-payer healthcare policy entrepreneurship even if that’s actually what would solve the medical debt problem.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#143

Post by briandear »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #43
dr_dshiv wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should see how easy it is to do these things in the Netherlands. No charge to wire money to an individual or business. No transaction cost for paying by card. Pay online with ideal for 0%, just scan qr code with bank app. Simple and easy.

Europe in general would be my example for how banking should be done.

If France is part of Europe, then no f’ing way. It’s a nightmare: arbitrary limits on debit cards, large transfers have to be done in person at your specific branch. The security requirements are Byzantine. For example, to get a new pin code, they actually mail you paper, you can do it in a branch. International money transfers require permission (only obtained at your specific branch.) They charge a monthly fee to have a Visa debit card and to get a “Gold” version with higher limits, you have to pay them more. Paper checks are still vastly preferred in France (for paying school fees, etc.) Banking in France is just one step above banking in Korea or China. French bank fees make American fees look positively discount by comparison.

That you have to go into your specific physical branch to do certain things is ridiculous. I can go into any Chase in the US and do anything I could do at my normal “home” branch.

N26 (a German bank) was vastly superior but even that had limitations, especially with moving money around internationally.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#144

Post by solveit »

vanniv wrote: post #138
sroussey wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, so not true. Banks often close accounts of types of people or businesses they don’t like at the moment. Just ask a PE/VC with a BofA account!

That, though, is mostly about risk management -- and even if they close your account, you get the money back. (I also would never do business with Bank of America, because they're awful and they hate their customers even more than Wells does) But even BofA doesn't do things like read your Twitter posts and YouTube comments so they can blackhole your account if you have have the wrong politics. The tech giants, on the…

> But even BofA doesn't do things like read your Twitter posts and YouTube comments so they can blackhole your account if you have have the wrong politics.

Yet.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#145

Post by kjs3 »

mmanfrin wrote: post #135
ProAm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another answer: because regular banks are awful to deal with. They don't have nice APIs to just move money around. They apply velocity limits at surprising times. They can terminate your account suddenly for opaque reasons. Do you think Google is going to do any better at this? They already have no customer support, close accounts without notice....etc... The article is right, this is about engagement.

> Do you think Google is going to do any better at this? They already have no customer support, close accounts without notice....etc... The article is right, this is about engagement. Absolutely. I say this as someone who is still angry with them over Reader. I don't trust Google, but I trust them a hell of a lot more than Wells Fargo, Bank of America, et al.

Really? Wells Fargo isn't mining my search history using a black-box algorithm to decide without transparency whether to close my account or decline a transaction because I might have become a risk of some sort.

Not that they would ever do such a thing.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#146

Post by fuzzfactor »

brycesbeard wrote: post #90
cstoner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're buying a classic car with funds directly from your emergency fund, then more power to you I guess but maybe you should be less impulsive with money set aside for emergencies. Personally, if I'm expecting to make a large cash purchase I have more than a few days notice.

Many people plan poorly and have to sell collectibles quickly for immediate cash. I know people who buy and sell cars purchased from folks who need money quickly (matter of hours) and will get crazy deals simply because they have cash on hand on eg a Sunday evening.

That particular auction is coming up in a few days.

Much more within reach to bid on a regular used car at the common auctions that regular used car dealers buy from.

Or you could purchase more leisurely from the dealer on his terms.

Either way their offices will often display a tattered old sign: _Cash Talks and BS Walks_.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#147

Post by Animats »

tlb wrote: post #4

Another answer: because regular banks are awful to deal with. They don't have nice APIs to just move money around. They apply velocity limits at surprising times. They can terminate your account suddenly for opaque reasons. They charge high regular fees and even higher "gotcha" fees if you make a mistake. They can take back money sent to you for up to 90 days, but often can't get back money you sent to crooks even if…

Paypal is generally considered to be worse than banks. They will "freeze" your funds for months. You have very weak rights there. With real banks, if that happens, you raise hell with the bank regulators and something happens.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#148

Post by kjs3 »

Iv wrote: post #136
ProAm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another answer: because regular banks are awful to deal with. They don't have nice APIs to just move money around. They apply velocity limits at surprising times. They can terminate your account suddenly for opaque reasons. Do you think Google is going to do any better at this? They already have no customer support, close accounts without notice....etc... The article is right, this is about engagement.

I think Google can be awful and still fare better than most regular banks.

I work for a bank. As bad as we can be, there's always a recourse of some sort (not always useful, but sometimes). There's always a regulator (not always activist, but sometimes). There's always an alternative (not always equivalent, but sometimes).

With Google, it's up to Google whether the answer is 'screw you' (unless you're spending tens of millions, it is).

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#149

Post by friendlybus »

vanniv wrote: post #103
tlb wrote: post #4

Another answer: because regular banks are awful to deal with. They don't have nice APIs to just move money around. They apply velocity limits at surprising times. They can terminate your account suddenly for opaque reasons. They charge high regular fees and even higher "gotcha" fees if you make a mistake. They can take back money sent to you for up to 90 days, but often can't get back money you sent to crooks even if…

Honestly, I wouldn't trust Google (or any other tech giant) to be my bank. My bank doesn't have a history of locking people's accounts when they post "the wrong" political opinions online. My bank doesn't have a plan to monetize access to my account, or to limit use of the account to only those activities of which the bank's army of woke employees approve. I think I'll stick with a real bank, thanks.

Patreon kicked off some political content because mastercard wouldn't continue to work with Patreon after a certain point.

Re: Why is everyone a bank?

#150

Post by acjohnson55 »

briandear wrote: post #140
acjohnson55 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Robinhood, I understand cash is SIPC insured once it hits their systems, and then it is a couple of days until it is deposited in underlying accounts at their program banks, where it is FDIC insured. So it's something to consider when moving large amounts of money. Another thing is that these neobanks have withdrawal amount limits and ATM limits, and so they aren't a great choice for storing emergency funds.

> Another thing is that these neobanks have withdrawal amount limits and ATM limits Every French bank has these limits. I once had a French bank account that limited my debit card to €2500 in purchases in a month — for no good reason other than trying to limit access to my own money. Cash purchases over €1000 are also illegal in France. For the most ridiculous banking rules and limits, France is the place. My chase a…

Yeah, but for the neobanks, it's even more strict. You simply can't access all your money instantly. As far as I can tell, anyhow.
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