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Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

reuters.com

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Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#141
post #23

Imagine for a moment that ssh became illegal. Is it even possible for the tech economy to continue? What would that look like? My head hurts. Actually, think of what Attorney General Barr said: Corporations should have access to strong encryption, just not little people. In that horrifying sort of world, there would be encryption licenses perhaps. And general purpose computing would be under a large threat. It is so…

It’d probably be some new PKI on top of SSH where your private key would be held in escrow by an identity provider. e.g. Your username is your email address, and your email provider retains your key pair. It’d probably be portrayed as an improved key management solution that allows more frequent key rotations and revocations. Might even start with being required for government projects, resulting in supported impleme…

> It’d probably be some new PKI on top of SSH where your private key would be held in escrow by an identity provider.

There's only a small problem here: the SSH private key is not used to encrypt the connection. It's used solely to authenticate the connection. The key used to actually encrypt and authenticate the data is an ephemeral key derived through a Diffie-Hellman key exchange during the connection establishment. That is, having the SSH private key does not allow one to decrypt the data after the fact. The only thing having the SSH private key allows is doing a MITM attack, and since SSH does mutual authentication, the attacker would need to have the private key for both ends of the connection.

Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#142
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’d probably be some new PKI on top of SSH where your private key would be held in escrow by an identity provider. e.g. Your username is your email address, and your email provider retains your key pair. It’d probably be portrayed as an improved key management solution that allows more frequent key rotations and revocations. Might even start with being required for government projects, resulting in supported impleme…

Given the trade wars, would the US be ok if China were to hold onto American company private keys so they can "monitor for lawful activity" of Chinese users? Let that sink in and show that the government arguments are not workable in the slightest.

[deleted]

Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#144
post #53

Encryption is math, and not even hard math at that. You have as much chance of stopping evil people from using encryption as you have of stopping them from doing multiplication. Make every politician who opposes encryption feel like an idiot for thinking they can stop people from adding and multiplying.

Encryption is math. No it isn't. The algorithm is math, but the application is much more than that. It's design, ux, marketing, etc. Governments weren't calling for an end to encryption when PGP was the best most people had. The thing that changed is how easy it is now, and that lower barrier is what governments are fighting in a very ill-thought way.

> Governments weren't calling for an end to encryption when PGP was the best most people had.

Actually during the first crypto wars, that's exactly what they did:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy#Criminal_i...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars#PC_era

Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#146
After normal citizens stop being able to use "unbreakable" encryption, only criminals will be able to use it.

So you will get the same "terrorism" and "child pornography" as you do today, but we won't be able to protect our privacy from state actors (or from tech companies and their employees) who will develop the upcoming wholesome, good-enough-for-you encryption.

By the way, is XOR considered "strong encryption"? Is it if an one time pad is used? Just asking :).

Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#147
post #125
post #29

Lots of criticism here, fair enough, it’s very worrying to give non-transparent institutions this kind of power, not to mention the technical feasibility. But... what should be done about child pornography, then? The ability to disseminate it with impunity is a problem we can’t just pretend doesn’t exist. Using online platforms pedophiles can monetize and go full time professional in countries where children are easi…

IMO trying to attack dissemination of CP is like trying to intercept bullets midair (perhaps even harder). There are countless ways to smuggle porn, just as there are countless ways to smuggle drugs. Drugs are harder, and yet they still can't prevent it. Maybe it's time to think of an alternative approach.

OK, but what? That was my question.

Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Billions of dollars per year? On a world basis, that's quite insubstantial. And child abuse has always been around, unfortunately. Much of it probably goes unrecorded. Indeed, we only became aware of how bad the problem really was in the 1980s, due to the very fact that media of it was now being created and exchanged.

I aspire to one day reach your level of cynicism but for now I will have to disagree with you that that is insubstantial, even on a world basis. Especially so because it is concentrated in only a very few countries where children have a very high chance of being exploited in this way. Have a read. https://www.rappler.com/nation/191219-philippines-top-global...

With respect, which part of this article do you find interesting? In fact, it totally confirms my expectation going in, that the whole thing is empty PR phrases and bullshit numbers. I mean, take the very first line:

"The Philippines has become a top global source of child pornography with around 80% of Filipino kids at risk of online sexual abuse or bullying, a global Unicef report said Tuesday, December 12."

That's the definition of bullshit. What is the actual claim here? 80% at risk (so maybe nothing happened). Of what? Well, possibly "bullying". How is that related to child pornography?

Ignoring the fact that the so-called "at risk" numbers are a favourite way to inflate the danger, because you have very wide latitude to make that number up, this claim is particularly incoherent.

I can't even, in this article, find a solid claim that child abuse is a particularly wide-spread problem in the Philippines; never mind any evidence for such a claim.

Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#149
post #56

So in the same time they should condemn democracy and freedom, as they're having exactly the same effect. It is much easier for police in authoritarian countries to prevent crimes and find perpetrators. But if they don't condemn democracy and freedom, they should also not condemn encryption. The ability to communicate privately, or saying things outside the consensus anonymously, is an important tool for citizens to…

"It is much easier for police in authoritarian countries to prevent crimes and find perpetrators." Is this actually true? This sounds like one of those bits of received wisdom (like the trains supposedly running on time under Mussolini) that turns out to be bogus. I'm not sure that the expansion of police powers under authoritarian regimes has anything to do with making them more efficient at preventing or solving cr…

Authoritarian states tend to be not as advanced technologically (one consequence of authoritarianism!), thus their police forces should be less efficient in general despite the increased powers.

But controlling for other factors, why wouldn't enhanced surveillance help catch criminals? It's a pretty logical claim.

Perhaps you should look for the evidence and bring back to us. For now, it is reasonable to accept the common sense statement.

Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators

#150

Sigh. What we can basically tell from this is that the Five Eyes crew have joint legislation ready to go on this and are now going to insert an easy-to-digest and appealing narrative into the mainstream ahead of the release of that legislation. The combination of "But the children! You don't support child predators, do you?!", low general technical understanding and overall apathy to the removal of our rights (in the…

I would say that time has already passed since many social media companies have such a grip already.
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