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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#141

Post by manigandham »

Rapzid wrote: post #136
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

I thought we were supposed to be designing cities for people and not vehicles. Isn't the answer for everyone to bike with their bike trailer to a central warehouse and collect their own packages?

No, service vehicles are integral to well-functioning cities. We need to increase efficient transportation so most people avoid cars with a single driver.

Delivery reduces traffic by having 1 truck drop off 100 packages instead of 100 people picking up 1 package.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#142

Post by manigandham »

Banning cars on major roads and eliminating street parking would solve this overnight. Roads in dense urban areas need to be used for service vehicles only.

It's just political will standing in the way at this point. People don't want to actually solve the misery, they just want to complain about it.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#143

Post by allworknoplay »

crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

This! What an insane framing from the times. 15 odd years ago the city gradually began converting manhattan avenue parking to more and more commercial loading zones because of double parking, and it worked. But despite proof that it works and pressure from transit groups (e.g. TransAlt -- primarily bike advocacy -- pitches a loading zone on every side of every block), the city has never been willing to do this on streets or most other boroughs.

The ticket money and jobs might present a conflict of interest, or it might just be entitled car-owning lifers. But it's insane, because double parking is incredibly harmful to traffic flows, dangerous to truck drivers and cyclists, and unnecessary in a city whose residents who largely demand truck deliveries all day every day and don't need or want the free/cheap parking.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#144

Post by allworknoplay »

mattzito wrote: post #77
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

This already exists in NYC, it’s the space in front of fire hydrants. It doesn’t help. The problem is that the trucks are simply offload points, and occupy large sections of street as 5-15 people process the packages, stack delivery carts, and proceed on their way. Then the deliveries are completed on foot. It’s a multi-hour process, blocks the sidewalk, and is pretty disruptive. Edit: you can see this process in act…

Ok that's not a solution because it's not legal either and doesn't fit delivery trucks. Actual loading zones are very different.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#145

Post by [deleted] »

Razengan wrote: post #22
skizm wrote: post #18

> They racked up more than 471,000 parking violations last year... I knew someone who owned a trucking company. They had a lawyer on retainer and every month or so they would gather all the parking tickets, go to a judge (or city official) and cut a deal to pay a fraction of the actual owed amount for all the tickets. This is because, if they did not comply, each ticket would be fought tooth and nail, and the city wo…

wow, a legal DOS.

[deleted]

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#146

Post by petra »

zdragnar wrote: post #16
giarc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Canada but have family in the US. I was visiting once and was ordering some things on Amazon. Amazon offered me coupons if I delayed shipment of items. I wish Amazon would expand this offering to other countries. I'd be happy to have packages combined into a weekly or biweekly shipment. If I need something right away I could indicate that, but for the most part I don't need things same day.

It isn't all that great in practice. At first, they were offering a dollar off music purchases (which I wasn't making). Once i moved to an area that no longer had 2 hour delivery (prime now) they started offering coupons for prime now orders... I HAD been using that on occasion, but couldn't any longer. It's almost like it was a gimmick that they didn't really care about...

Amazon wants people to request things immediately. It's harder to do effectively, so there would be less competition.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#148

Post by mattzito »

allworknoplay wrote: post #144
mattzito wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This already exists in NYC, it’s the space in front of fire hydrants. It doesn’t help. The problem is that the trucks are simply offload points, and occupy large sections of street as 5-15 people process the packages, stack delivery carts, and proceed on their way. Then the deliveries are completed on foot. It’s a multi-hour process, blocks the sidewalk, and is pretty disruptive. Edit: you can see this process in act…

Ok that's not a solution because it's not legal either and doesn't fit delivery trucks. Actual loading zones are very different.

It was a slightly tongue in cheek answer, just that as a practical matter for the use case of dropping off a passenger or a lone package, they work just fine, and are commonly used for that case.

I agree that actual loading zones are different, but I don’t think they would address the actual problem on the ground.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#149

Post by crooked-v »

xyst wrote: post #43

City tax payers are ultimately paying the price for “2-day shipping” in the form of more congestion and pollution, and compromised safety. Shouldn’t the companies causing these problems pay for enhancing the infrastructure (roads, parking) they use to make their $$$? I imagine it’s a much more costlier option since you have to work with the city but it should be a net positive gain (packages delivered more efficientl…

> City tax payers are ultimately paying the price for “2-day shipping” in the form of more congestion and pollution, and compromised safety.

"2-day shipping" is only a cause if it makes people order more packages in general (which it probably does, but it's a leap that should be considered rather than automatically made). The delivery companies involved are pretty efficient at this stuff and aren't going to waste money by deploying half-empty trucks, so the delivery traffic corresponds very linearly to the average total number of packages being delivered.

> Or maybe the city should tax companies that abuse the public infrastructure?

What about taxing individuals that abuse the public infrastructure by leaving cars to constantly take up street parking? Delivery companies are certainly much, much more efficient in terms of road usage and parking space needed than somebody driving a car to go buy stuff in a shop.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#150

Post by notatoad »

Rapzid wrote: post #136
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

I thought we were supposed to be designing cities for people and not vehicles. Isn't the answer for everyone to bike with their bike trailer to a central warehouse and collect their own packages?

carving out specific areas for specific vehicular uses is designing for people. people still need vehicles sometimes, especially communal, efficient vehicles like the ones that do parcel delivery. Everybody doing everything themselves is not a good solution, no matter what mode of transportation they use.
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