The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more • Hacker News Board

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#141

Post by lethalshadow » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

VvR-Ox wrote: post #77

That's the problem with many proprietary consumer devices (take the iPad into this category as well). 1. Vendor lock: You can't install or change most of the things including OS and Apps. 2. Locked down OS: You can't do anything with your device. If you try to change the OS you'll maybe brick it. 3. Planned obsolescence built in: If the vendor decides it's "time to say goodbye" you won't get updates anymore and proba…

I've used a bunch of e-ink devices. Here's my thoughts on them.

Sony DPT-RP1: 13" display, only displays PDFs. They added a feature in it to one of the updates that you can use it as an external monitor. Haven't tried it yet. Sony is extremely slow when adding new features and updates, it seems like their release cycles are every 2 years. The screen is I think the best on the market right now.

Sony DPT-S1: 13" display, only displays PDFs. This is the older version of the RP1. Oddly enough, it has a lot more features software wise. It has a web browser and SD card reader. Using a browser on an e-ink display is possible, but it's painful to use. It sucks typing out a URL and scrolling because of the refresh rate. It would be somewhat better if there was a way to turn through webpages instead of scrolling so the screen would only refresh once.

Onyx Boox Note 13": Onyx e-ink devices use Android (older versions of Android). The good thing about these devices are that they could display almost any type of format - PDF, Mobi, Epub, etc. The UI is somewhat clunky and could use some polish and so could some of the English translations. The updates come more frequently but it's a gamble on whether the new features are worth dealing with the new bugs they introduce. The larger versions you could also use as an external monitor as well.

Remarkable: 10.3" display. Best note taking e-ink display I've ever used. It's almost like writing on paper. I would only use it for drawing and note taking though. When transferring PDFs, it converts the files to their own format. They also have an app which allows you to sync files with your phone. Their last major software release they had to pull twice because of bugs.

Amazon Paperwhite: Nice small device which allows you to read in the dark. Most of the large e-ink displays do not have backlights. Great for reading anything that doesn't have graphics. Do not read PDFs on them.

Microsoft Surface: Not an e-ink device, but portable enough that you can read any format on it and more. Comparable in price to a lot of the 13" e-ink displays since they normally go for $500-800.

I've never found one best e-ink device out there for all uses. They all have certain things they excel at. They are all lightweight low-powered devices though, so if you want to do anything besides read or write text on them you'll probably end up being disappointed.

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#142

Post by VvR-Ox » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

alok-g wrote: post #131

canuckintime wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a bit sad that innovation in this sector stopped and I'd be willing to pay up to 1k $ for the described features. It's practically a market failure. There was a color eReader[1] running Android 8 years ago (a small tablet before the iPad mini and Nexus 7)! That mirasol display is still better outdoors than the iPhone 11 Pro or iPad Pro at max brightness. If anyone took that old display tech and put it in a mode…

I was the lead technology architect for the next generation of mirasol referred to in the engadget link, and really wish that the technology had survived. For reflective displays, there isn't practically anything that could produce good colors, that too along with video-capability.

I am sorry to hear that.

I really hope we'll see the day someone revives this technology and puts it in a shiny metal case.

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#143

Post by VvR-Ox » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #107

VvR-Ox wrote: post #77

That's the problem with many proprietary consumer devices (take the iPad into this category as well). 1. Vendor lock: You can't install or change most of the things including OS and Apps. 2. Locked down OS: You can't do anything with your device. If you try to change the OS you'll maybe brick it. 3. Planned obsolescence built in: If the vendor decides it's "time to say goodbye" you won't get updates anymore and proba…

I'm happy with my Onyx because I can read full-size two-column PDFs on it without scrolling around and mark them up. That said, I'd like it even more if it was completely open-source and ran real Linux. I'm dying for one of these things I can program myself.

I am as happy as I can be with my Onyx as well. The FOSS part would be nice and also the mirasol color display ;)

At least you can run Android apps on it and use a shell if you want to.

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#144

Post by PeterStuer » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

RandomBacon wrote: post #112

PeterStuer wrote: post #84

Love my Kindle Paperwhithe. Reading on an eInk display is far superior than any other kind of screen. Also love that it is a pretty dumb device just for reading. Since it has no camera or potential to attach one, it means it is allowed into places like the sauna where phones and tablets are prohibited.

Do you ever run into temperature issues with the device?

Just to clarify: With 'In the sauna' I did not mean inside the sauna-cabin, just into the other areas (bar, restaurant, relaxchairs, outdoor area etc.) of the sauna complex.

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#145

Post by VvR-Ox » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

zxcb1 wrote: post #98

VvR-Ox wrote: post #77

That's the problem with many proprietary consumer devices (take the iPad into this category as well). 1. Vendor lock: You can't install or change most of the things including OS and Apps. 2. Locked down OS: You can't do anything with your device. If you try to change the OS you'll maybe brick it. 3. Planned obsolescence built in: If the vendor decides it's "time to say goodbye" you won't get updates anymore and proba…

To me Amazon has managed to innovate and outcompete. When reaching a quasi monopoly it all stopped and now it feels like being stuck with the worst parts of capitalism and socialism. Innovation can only take place from within the mega structure, according to its centrally planned corporate logic. If I could, I would take my books and leave. For that to happen they need to embrace open formats.

1. I don't think so. What is innovative about the Kindle if you compare it to Onyx/Remarkable/Sony DP/Mirasol? 2. Putting all others out of competition is Amazons strategy and they do it all too well. But this is one of the main reasons innovation stops. 3. Innovation can also happen bottom up if you give people a chance. Unfortunately mega companies like Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft etc. just buy everything that looks like it could become serious competition. Sometimes they just bury ideas (like it happened to the Pebble Smartwatch) and at other times they use the idea to transform it into something ugly (see WhatsApp). 4. You can probably leave. I think the security mechanism that protects the books can be broken and there are certain resources in the depth of the web where you can obtain a copy. I don't want to tell you to do that - just look at it as a thought experiment ;)

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#146

Post by ChrisLTD » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 5:59 PM UTC

TwoNineFive wrote: post #53

blurbleblurble wrote: post #42

I recently got a Dasung Not-eReader... and it's amazing! It's a quality android tablet with a high speed e-ink display. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/not-ereader-first-e-ink-m...

Yikes based on Android 6! It looks cool and the idea of an eink monitor is appealing. I have a Onyx Boox Note Pro that I bought a few months ago that can apparently do something like this but I've not actually tried it.

According to the Onyx website, the Boox Note Pro is also based on Android 6.

https://onyxboox.com/boox_notepro

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#147

Post by VvR-Ox » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 6:03 PM UTC

big_chungus wrote: post #125

VvR-Ox wrote: post #77

That's the problem with many proprietary consumer devices (take the iPad into this category as well). 1. Vendor lock: You can't install or change most of the things including OS and Apps. 2. Locked down OS: You can't do anything with your device. If you try to change the OS you'll maybe brick it. 3. Planned obsolescence built in: If the vendor decides it's "time to say goodbye" you won't get updates anymore and proba…

Those that you listed are certainly good, but expensive. I got a kindle because it was cheap, but also because I knew there was a good jailbreaking community. I had to update my jailbreak and switch from launchpad to kindlets, iirc, the other day; inconvenient, but doable. I certainly see why a consumer wouldn't want to do it, but I don't see what a consumer would want to do on an open linux platform, either. All tha…

Yes they are. A Kindle maybe is for people who just need to display certain formats / information but it can't display PDF properly, you can't write on it and I think it's a little too small (if I am still correct and they haven't released version with an increased screen size in the meantime).

I've jailbroken a lot of devices and in my opinion it's too time consuming and tiresome to do it very often / on a regular base.

It's okay if people have fun with tinkering and it's a great way to learn. But nowadays I'm really glad when something just works and I can do the things I originally intended to do with them ;-p

In terms of an e-reader/writer it means reading, annotating and sketching instead of trying to get SSH, unlocking the bootloader and flashing unsupported firmware.

Too often I did this and ended up with a (partly) broken, sometimes working but for sure not very safe device that could barely do what it just wasn't intended to do.

BTW that Debian on Kindle looks like a nice POC just like some guy who put Ubuntu on it but it's not really useful if you can't use all the apps etc.

The list of apps which have been compiled so far is not long enough and I could not imagine doing much useful stuff with it I'm afraid. Nice work though.

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#148

Post by VvR-Ox » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 6:04 PM UTC

mav3rick wrote: post #78

VvR-Ox wrote: post #77

That's the problem with many proprietary consumer devices (take the iPad into this category as well). 1. Vendor lock: You can't install or change most of the things including OS and Apps. 2. Locked down OS: You can't do anything with your device. If you try to change the OS you'll maybe brick it. 3. Planned obsolescence built in: If the vendor decides it's "time to say goodbye" you won't get updates anymore and proba…

Unfortunately companies can't make devices for 1 person.

Yes that's very unfortunate.

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#149

Post by VvR-Ox » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 6:12 PM UTC

lethalshadow wrote: post #141

VvR-Ox wrote: post #77

That's the problem with many proprietary consumer devices (take the iPad into this category as well). 1. Vendor lock: You can't install or change most of the things including OS and Apps. 2. Locked down OS: You can't do anything with your device. If you try to change the OS you'll maybe brick it. 3. Planned obsolescence built in: If the vendor decides it's "time to say goodbye" you won't get updates anymore and proba…

I've used a bunch of e-ink devices. Here's my thoughts on them. Sony DPT-RP1: 13" display, only displays PDFs. They added a feature in it to one of the updates that you can use it as an external monitor. Haven't tried it yet. Sony is extremely slow when adding new features and updates, it seems like their release cycles are every 2 years. The screen is I think the best on the market right now. Sony DPT-S1: 13" displa…

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.

Sony: I haven't used them but considered buying one until I read about the restriction to PDFs.

Onyx: I bought the Boox Note and so far it's the best e-reader I owned. The refresh rate is good enough to use some Android apps but I don't really need them as I use the device for reading and annotating / note-taking.

Remarkable: I didn't buy it because of the strange file format support and though it runs on linux it appears to be even more locked than the Onyx.

Amazon: No comments on this other than "nice for reading certain formats".

Surface: Has no eInk - I think it can't be compared to the other devices.

That is true so I think we just have to wait for this device to be invented some years from now.

Re: The Kindle is fine, but could’ve been much more

#150

Post by k__ » Sat, Oct 26, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

ruddct wrote: post #122

I was in the Kindle org when it was blowing up at Amazon. Started when there were a few dozen people in Seattle working on it, ended when there were a few thousand. They're right that it could've been more. Back in the early days, after the launch of the second version, many people internally saw this. If this works for books, it should work for magazines! Newspapers! Websites! Crosswords! Apps of all sorts! Social n…

Isn't eInk a bit like OLED, but way more ahead of our time?

I think it's a cool technology, but probably needs more money/time to be general purpose.