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Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

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Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#141

Post by zentiggr »

mumblemumble wrote: post #12
jedieaston wrote: post #2

Is this not a case study that anyone can leave Oracle now, if an Amazon scale install can?

It is not. Amazon accomplished the task by building their own Oracle replacement. You have to be approximately as large as Amazon for that to be a realistic option. If you'd like to use the alternatives that Amazon built, you can, of course, migrate to Amazon Web Services. Though, if you dislike the vendor lock-in you're experiencing with Oracle, and are considering Amazon as a good place to flee to, you possibly hav…

Thank you for mentioning the departure fee... That just took AWS off the table for me unless I'm pushed into it by other (paying) parties.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#143

Post by vbezhenar »

y4mi wrote: post #75
binarymax wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m interested in seeing how much they try to milk Java in the next 10 years. I can see them getting desperate enough to really bring the hammer down on licensing, killing off openjdk, and making life miserable for everyone in the process.

How? Its an Open source implementation of the java vm which they don't own.

Why do you think that they don't own OpenJDK? Here's snippet from "OpenJDK: How to contribute" page:

> Like many other open-source communities, the OpenJDK Community requires Contributors to jointly assign their copyright on contributed code. If you haven't yet signed the Oracle Contributor Agreement (OCA) then please do so, scan it and e-mail the result to oracle-ca_us(at)oracle.com. Please make sure to specify OpenJDK as the project you'd like to contribute to so that we can process and store your OCA. Allow at least two weeks for processing. If your request is urgent contact the appropriate Project Lead.

It seems to me that they actually own OpenJDK. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that they have the power to make all code proprietary if they want.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#144

Post by the_duke »

The video feels like a big middle finger to Oracle.

"stop oracle", and the URL https://aws.amazon.com/products/databases/freedom.

Not that I'm complaining, Oracle deserves all the hate they get for their business practices.

But associating AWS with "breaking free" is extremely ironic. It's just as much of a source for vendor lock in as Oracle.

If you are not extremely careful/dedicated with your system design, you are never moving off of AWS ever again, or only with a huge engineering effort that almost no-one will swallow. AWS also knows this very well: discounts are harder to come by if they can tell you are totally locked in to their infrastructure.

Combine that with the fact that AWS loves to fork OS projects and build products out of them, without contributing back upstream.

AWS is a terrific platform in many ways, but it is certainly not something that will lead to freedom of choice.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#145

Post by drawkbox »

tootie wrote: post #118
drawkbox wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2001/2003, I led a small team at an agency that converted Kraftfoods and 50+ brands from 25+ ATG Dynamo web/app CMS servers + 20+ Oracle servers to .NET 1.0 CMS on 3 web servers, 3 app servers and 3 Microsoft SQL Servers. Even then Oracle tools were horrible for developers and still are. The only reason they had that many databases was Oracle's business is licensing, massive, expensive licenses, and their sales pu…

ATG Dynamo. Brings back some memories. It was actually a really smart platform that was killed by the vastly inferior J2EE. Spring is basically the same premise as Dynamo and is still going strong.

J2EE reminds me of another blast from the past, a contract around the time for Java (Apache) Struts [1], boilerplate hell and not fun.

Fun fact: Java (Apache) Struts 2 [2] is a vulnerability mess. It was used by Equifax on the breach:

> Struts 2 has a history of critical security bugs, many tied to its use of OGNL technology; some vulnerabilities can lead to arbitrary code execution. In October 2017, it was reported that failure by Equifax to address a Struts 2 vulnerability advised in March 2017 was later exploited in the data breach that was disclosed by Equifax in September 2017. [2]

They probably went with Java EE because it was "secure", little did they know Struts would enter the game. Equifax I am sure treats their developers good by how often their software was updated /s.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Struts_1

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Struts_2

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#146

Post by fooblitzky »

mxschumacher wrote: post #54

Will be interesting to see whether Amazon can make their insight into a service. Countless companies would be glad about a migration path from Oracle to AWS's solutions.

Maybe this? https://aws.amazon.com/dms/?nc2=h_ql_prod_mt_dbms

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#147

Post by notzuck »

AshwinDurairaj wrote: post #11
jedieaston wrote: post #2

Is this not a case study that anyone can leave Oracle now, if an Amazon scale install can?

SAP and Salesforce would love to, but haven't achieved Oracle-free status to the joy of Larry.

S4 doesn't use Oracle, Commerce doesn't use Oracle. Some of the acquisitions still do because nobody wanted to free up cash.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#148

Post by tyingq »

Is "Amazon's Consumer Area" deliberately specific? That is, are they still using Oracle somewhere else? (Despite 75 petabytes being significant)

Edit: I did see "some third-party applications are tightly bound to Oracle and were not migrated". Curious if that's all that is left, globally, at AMZN.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#149

Post by skybrian »

mattlondon wrote: post #42
CydeWeys wrote: post #18

Migrating everything to the same externally-available cloud infrastructure is exactly the thing that Google needs to do, but has been failing at for going on a decade now. Yes, I'm bitter about it.

Is it not the case that it is actually the opposite? That GCP is running on the internally-available cloud infrastructure at Google? How would they turn that inside out? What would GCP actually run on if they ran GCP on GCP? Or do you mean run search/gmail/youtube on GCP? Isn't their internal infra basically kubernetes in all but name?

It depends where you are in the stack. At a low level they're using the same data centers, but the public stuff like GCP and Kubernetes is a rewrite of earlier internal software and migration of higher-level servers to a different stack is nontrivial.

Re: Amazon’s Consumer Business Turned Off Final Oracle Database

#150

Post by poxrud »

samfriedman wrote: post #29

In my mind the true "hard part" would be in migrating business logic that lives in Oracle stored procedures (PL-SQL). Are there any tools that do a decent job in translating procs to non-Oracle dialects?

AWS has the AWS Schema Conversion tool that works pretty well.
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