Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#141

Post by scottmcf » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:14 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #91

oceanplexian wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure Crypto backed by a particular company might not happen, but I don’t see BTC and similar P2P blockchain currencies going anywhere. It’s about as easy to stop as digital piracy, which is to say in other words physically impossible to regulate.

The US has a tremendous amount of power in the world financial system. If they want to inhibit crypto currencies, they can make it illegal to use credit cards to buy them, illegal for US banks to transfer to or from an exchange, and illegal for US banks to deal with any bank in any country that allows such activity, or any bank that deals with another bank that allows it.

It was illegal to privately own actual gold anywhere in the world as a US citizen between 1933 and 1975. That's absolutely an approach they could take.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#142

Post by ineedasername » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:14 AM UTC

elyobo wrote: post #135

ineedasername wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google are still dealing with merchant fees. So is PayPal for many transactions. A PayPal style system might work, but it is only low-cost low-friction (the main appeal for crypto) for the transactions that occur completely within it's own ecosystem. And they don't call it a currency, so they dodge some issues there. Paypal also dodges issues of "being a bank" because funds equivalent to customer balances a…

Crypto seems like it's (at the moment) neither low cost nor low friction; did I misunderstand you?

Nope, no misunderstanding, you're right! But the promise of crypto is cheap frictionless transactions. We're a long way off.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#143

Post by jakobegger » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:22 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #132

greggman2 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what Libra's plans are but couldn't Facebook make their own Paypal? What would really be the difference? I can hold a balance at Paypal. I can pay others and others can pay me. The "crypto" part seems like an implementation detail but otherwise irrelevant. Note: I'm not saying Facebook should be allowed to make their own Paypal. I'm just curious other than "Facebook scary because big" what other reason w…

Apple and Google are still dealing with merchant fees. So is PayPal for many transactions. A PayPal style system might work, but it is only low-cost low-friction (the main appeal for crypto) for the transactions that occur completely within it's own ecosystem. And they don't call it a currency, so they dodge some issues there. Paypal also dodges issues of "being a bank" because funds equivalent to customer balances a…

> Paypal also dodges issues of "being a bank" (...)

AFAIK Paypal is a bank in the EU.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#144

Post by oaiey » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #22

vertex-four wrote: post #20

If Facebook attempts to become a money transfer service or bank without the required licensing, they will have their offices raided and their doors locked on them. This is something Governments don't tend to mess around with.

FB is banking (pun unnintended) on the regulators and goverments being absolutely useless lately. Both AirBnB and Uber built empires on ”What if we just ignore the rules”

Money is the fabric of our economic system for thousands of years. Taxis and accommodation are just tiny services build on that fabric.

Facebook is dealing with different powers here.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#145

Post by elyobo » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:27 AM UTC

ineedasername wrote: post #142

elyobo wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto seems like it's (at the moment) neither low cost nor low friction; did I misunderstand you?

Nope, no misunderstanding, you're right! But the promise of crypto is cheap frictionless transactions. We're a long way off.

Understood. Yes, it will probably get there eventually.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#146

Post by Iv » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:38 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

Either Zuckberg has a geeky naive understanding of financial institutions to think this will go easily, or he is ready to use blackmail material.

Libra is something I wish we fight to the death.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#147

Post by riffraff » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 6:41 AM UTC

greggman2 wrote: post #116

ineedasername wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

">If Libra ignored these rules..." This isn't like Uber silently encroaching on a city's taxi medallion laws with grey-area definitions of "taxi" and "employee". Facebook cannot do something like this without attracting scrutiny at every stage, and as we saw with Robinhood, the financial regulation systems are relatively quick to act. Especially if they "defy govs", then those government's will have every reason to c…

I don't know what Libra's plans are but couldn't Facebook make their own Paypal? What would really be the difference? I can hold a balance at Paypal. I can pay others and others can pay me. The "crypto" part seems like an implementation detail but otherwise irrelevant. Note: I'm not saying Facebook should be allowed to make their own Paypal. I'm just curious other than "Facebook scary because big" what other reason w…

Well, they would have to do what PayPal did, which is build 1. A system that is acceptable by the regulations of any possible country they want to operate in. 2. Implemented by as many merchants as PayPal is.

This is feasible but not trivial.

Now, if you add in the "defy governments" part, it's clear that most merchants would not use it, which means users have a negative incentive to use libra over PayPal or whatever.

Even Amazon and Google failed to "just build a PayPal", and I don't see why Facebook would succeed easily.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#148

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 7:04 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

The U.S. government will be very pleased that Facebook have circumvented all their anti-money laundering safeguards. So will entire nation states. Nothing could possibly go wrong.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#149

Post by karlp » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 7:07 AM UTC

vinniejames wrote: post #133

travisoneill1 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to stop the blockchain. You just have to prevent the tokens from being exchanged for dollars which is a lot easier.

This would have the singular affect of forcing the entire cryptocurrency ecosystem into the black market, where it would thrive alive and well. Likely doing more harm than good in the process by fueling violent cartels to wreak havoc, as is still happening with the war on some drugs

That makes no sense, cryptocurrencies are already being used for illegal purposes.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#150

Post by dao- » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 7:08 AM UTC

antpls wrote: post #126

dao- wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it in PayPal's interest that Libra succeeds? It seems that they would be competitors. They might just have backed it strategically to somehow have a stake in it if it takes off big time. Given the pushback they could now bank on the whole thing failing instead.

The point of the cryptocurrency was to decentralize Libra amongst several actors, such as Visa, Master Card, Paypal, etc If done, Libra would have been the common interest of all those actors. That was the goal of the project.

That doesn't seem to contradict what I said? Sure, PayPal wanted a stake in this assuming it would become a success that they couldn't stop... but they may still be better off if Libra doesn't become a success in the first place.