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.NET Core 3.0

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET Core 3.0

#141

Post by m_fayer »

Nelkins wrote: post #96

Is anybody using Blazor for anything that isn't a toy? I'm interested in using it at work but because it appears that the payload is relatively large I wouldn't want to use it for anything that wasn't internal facing.

We're exploring using server side blazor for a desktop app. You just bundle the "server" right into the app together with a webview to show your UI. No performance issues because there's only ever one user and you're not relying on a network (or mono or wasm). More exciting, it feels like C# in the browser, but there's no sandbox or threading limitations to speak of. So far it's pretty awesome.

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#142

Post by The_rationalist »

untog wrote: post #129
The_rationalist wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal would be to challenge your belief. If you were knowledgeable, you would know for example that chromium 2D rendering engine (skia) is the current state of the art. Benchmarking fps, vsync stability, input latency, etc would be enlightening. There are order of magnitude more engineers working at optimizing chromium than WPF.

I think the OP meant "bloated and heavy" in terms of the sheer size of the thing, not the performance of it. And it is. It's very difficult to use _just_ the 2D rendering part of Chromium, you bundle the whole thing, warts and all.

Binary size is only one "performance metric" and arguably the less important one.

Anyway, did you know that chromium is the GUI framework that allow you to have the smallest Binary size? Instead of bundling it like you would with most GUI frameworks (GTK, QT) you can just use the locally installed chrome instance through Carlo.

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#143

Post by thrower123 »

untog wrote: post #126
atonse wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve thought about this but I doubt it. The big change has been the perception shift. .NET was always really solid tech. Microsoft has always had stellar developer technology. But the love affair with open source and the super villain role that Microsoft played, is what kept people away, not the tech itself. I remember wanting to give a talk about how amazing C# was to a ruby group. I never did it, but it was definit…

The ecosystem is what drove me away from C# (as well as not wanting to do enterprise work). I started dabbling with Ruby and Node and the sheer number of free third party libraries blew my mind. C# simply didn't compare.

One of the nice things about .net is you don't need to download half the internet to do most of the things you want to do.

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#144

Post by redhale »

equasar wrote: post #138
DavidWoof wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been Rider almost exclusively for about 2 years now, ever since I've been coding Core. VS is fine, but VS w/Resharper is a dog. With Rider, R# is a first class citizen, which makes a huge difference. Not to mention that the vim emulation and other addons are solid due to being shared with the intellij suite of apps.

VS 2019 has been integrating lots of new refactorings that were only on R#. It appears that they are more and more between small releases. I'm happy to never need to use R# anymore.

Refactorings are but one feature of Resharper. The code hints/suggestions are still far better than vanilla VS, unfortunately (imo).

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#145

Post by mieseratte »

tabtab wrote: post #76
avgDev wrote: post #23

I have been developing in .Net MVC 5 and now the last 6 months in .Net Core 2.1. Core is pretty awesome, I would say the learning curve is pretty high, but I'm very satisfied. Previously, I used Java in school. The .Net stack offers a lot of jobs in enterprise companies, if you are someone that dislikes SV mindset. Also, Visual Studio is an insane IDE. Although, I recently did have some nasty bugs but updates are com…

Re: I would say the learning curve is pretty high If you had to rank and list the top rough spots in the transition, what would they be? Entity-Framework changes are often cited, but what else is different enough?

Having just come into a .NET shop in the last couple months, having spent much time with Spring / Java the documentation and clarity of what to use is troublesome. I really expected Microsoft to have great documentation, but sadly I’ve not found it great.

So far I’ve done some WCF SOAP work, and an ASP.NET MVC 5 application. Figuring out what the latest frameworks and tools is a bit of legwork. Things aren’t always clear, and not always well integrated.

Figuring out authentication was not clear, whether to use Membership, Identity, where OWIN fit into the picture. If you need custom authentication finding details is hard. Ultimately I figured it out, but it’s clear as mud from a fresh eyes standpoint.

Then setting up DI, which container? Well I had Core DI available, figured that would be a good choice. Except I have to write a good bit of glue code to make it work.

I’m definitely enjoying C# as a language and the standard library. But the ecosystem is a bit clunky.

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#146

Post by blyat »

mieseratte wrote: post #145
tabtab wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: I would say the learning curve is pretty high If you had to rank and list the top rough spots in the transition, what would they be? Entity-Framework changes are often cited, but what else is different enough?

Having just come into a .NET shop in the last couple months, having spent much time with Spring / Java the documentation and clarity of what to use is troublesome. I really expected Microsoft to have great documentation, but sadly I’ve not found it great. So far I’ve done some WCF SOAP work, and an ASP.NET MVC 5 application. Figuring out what the latest frameworks and tools is a bit of legwork. Things aren’t always c…

If you want a more batteries-included less-glue-requiring IoC container, can't recommend Autofac enough. Always up-to-date, responsive developers, thorough documentation. I chose it over ten years ago after reading https://www.manning.com/books/dependency-injection-in-dot-ne...? and have never looked back.

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#147

Post by caseymarquis »

mcdermott wrote: post #24

C# (the default .Net lang) has so much ceremony, boilerplate/scaffolding and IDE dependence (IDE programmers) and OOP overhead that it requires 5x more lines of code than the same app in Python or Go. Every time my interest peaks, I take a look leave with the same feeling that it's a dated/bloated OOP relic and would take all the joy out of programming. I've also noticed that most C# programmers don't usually know an…

If you're writing boilerplate code in C#, it's either because you prefer to be explicit, or because you don't know how to use reflection and dynamic compilation yet. Using C# without reflection is like using Scheme without macros. That said, just like macros lead to DSLs, reflection leads to custom frameworks which then have to be explained to newcomers. It's definitely a cost/benefit thing, and there's an argument against ever using reflection. I can't live without it at this point though. You could say I've 'gone through the looking glass'.

If you're a C# dev who hasn't dug in to reflection yet, the gist is that all the things that the MVC, ORM, DI frameworks do, you can also do. This allows you to build custom frameworks which eliminate boilerplate.

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#148

Post by sunnyP »

Nelkins wrote: post #96

Is anybody using Blazor for anything that isn't a toy? I'm interested in using it at work but because it appears that the payload is relatively large I wouldn't want to use it for anything that wasn't internal facing.

You might want to check out Oqtane for a Blazor framework. https://www.oqtane.org/

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#149

Post by gargarplex »

avgDev wrote: post #23

I have been developing in .Net MVC 5 and now the last 6 months in .Net Core 2.1. Core is pretty awesome, I would say the learning curve is pretty high, but I'm very satisfied. Previously, I used Java in school. The .Net stack offers a lot of jobs in enterprise companies, if you are someone that dislikes SV mindset. Also, Visual Studio is an insane IDE. Although, I recently did have some nasty bugs but updates are com…

As a recruiter, I have to say that .Net is still used by startups, especially in Europe and cities like Manhattan with a large European population. I am shamefully plugging the fact that I am recruiting for said roles :-)

Re: .NET Core 3.0

#150

Post by ToFab123 »

mumblemumble wrote: post #75
LandR wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual studio crashes and hangs on me multiple times a day. Rider is just solid.

I haven't used VS in about 2 years now, so this experience may be too many versions out of date to be relevant anymore, but for a while I had very similar problems. And then I uninstalled ReSharper, and VS all of a sudden became very snappy.

You can get most of snappiness back even with ReSharper installed. If you dig into the ReSharper option menu, under "Product and feature", and untick everything in the feature section except "Navigation and search", you still get the amazing refactoring and writing-code support but without your computer slows to crawl speed.
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