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Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

theguardian.com

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Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#141

Post by celticninja »

mcv wrote: post #132
edf13 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect (Or have you sources?).... the issue is old legacy based companies. No matter where they are based. Legacy as in business systems, business thought process, legacy IT, etc. TC is a very old company

There are also old companies who manage to keep up and innovate, and care about competence. Not as much as tiny startups, but enough to survive and do well. One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. So tons of British politicians and managers know how to appear to know what they're doing, without actually knowing what…

I dont even know where to start with this comment.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#142

Post by mcv »

benj111 wrote: post #123
pjc50 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the tourists aren't being paradropped over hostile territory. Unless Thomas Cook had really gone downhill..

I don't think they limited the amount of people they dropped on the Netherlands, or the people they threw at the Normandy beaches on the basis that they might be shot at. Logistics was the limiting factor.

And jumping them out of a plane saves on landing and return flights, so in that sense, Normandy and Market Garden would be logistically simpler than Operation Matterhorn.

Although I hope that Matterhorn doesn't require any bridgeheads to be conquered.

It's also worth remembering that Market Garden failed in its final objective.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#143

Post by vesinisa »

edf13 wrote: post #110
sprafa wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most British companies I’ve seen operating appear to be an absolute mess from the inside. It’s funny that the British have the Northern European credibility in business but I don’t think they’re anywhere close as efficient or organised as the Germans or the Dutch. This is just personal experience but I’ve come to realise it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible.

Incorrect (Or have you sources?).... the issue is old legacy based companies. No matter where they are based. Legacy as in business systems, business thought process, legacy IT, etc. TC is a very old company

Company being old certainly does not mean it needs to be full of legacy systems and business processes. It only means that the company's management is not competent at evolving the company's processes and systems, which means it will eventually fail regardless of being a fresh startup or centuries old going concern.

Bosch, Siemens, Bayer, BASF and Carl-Zeiss are all examples of over hundred year-old German companies that continue to innovate at the cutting edge of their industries and are massively profitable.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#144

Post by Jaruzel »

dehrmann wrote: post #47
wp381640 wrote: post #16

Reminder again to never hold gift cards. I had a family member who was gited a $3,000 travel voucher with an agency - I told them to exchange it in for flights asap as you can book up to a year out, change the tickets later and it's better to be a creditor with a national airline than a likely-going-out-of-business-because-of-online travel agency

The gift card market just confuses me. Especially when it's people giving gifts to people (not corporate gifts), cash is something that has at least as much value as the gift card, is accept everywhere, isn't a liability on a balance sheet, and is easier to give.

The thing about 'gift cards' is that people think they are money. They are not, they hold no actual monetary value, which is why you can't request the issuing company to convert them back to cash. Also MANY gift cards have expiry dates on them. It doesn't matter if the gift card is 'worth' £3,000, if it's past its expiry date, that £3,000 is effectively gone.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#145

Post by sverige »

celticninja wrote: post #141
mcv wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also old companies who manage to keep up and innovate, and care about competence. Not as much as tiny startups, but enough to survive and do well. One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. So tons of British politicians and managers know how to appear to know what they're doing, without actually knowing what…

I dont even know where to start with this comment.

> One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. So tons of British politicians and managers know how to appear to know what they're doing, without actually knowing what they're doing.

Having worked with certain interested underwriters from Lloyd's, it was an easy upvote for me.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#146

Post by jonatron »

markh wrote: post #135
rwmj wrote: post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

This brings back memories... I was the technical half of a two person team who built the very first Thomas Cook website in 1995. Of course, e-commerce was a step too far at the time, but there was much excitement when the spec for HTML frames came out mid-project (don’t judge).

28.8Kbps dialup was a different time. I think teletext holidays were popular then.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#147

Post by pfdietz »

sligor wrote: post #125
growlist wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy throw away comment to make but don't forget lots of honest people in Tunisia are trying to make a living out of tourism, and from a selfish point of view having been to Tunisia there is loads of good stuff to see.

Let's see how the authorities react to such hostage-taking. If they do nothing quickly then, yes, it is a very bad thing for the country notoriety

It would be an act of war against the UK.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#148

Post by leokennis »

growlist wrote: post #100
interdrift wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general just avoid going to such countries lol

Easy throw away comment to make but don't forget lots of honest people in Tunisia are trying to make a living out of tourism, and from a selfish point of view having been to Tunisia there is loads of good stuff to see.

My experience is based on Egypt tourism. I'm not saying the people themselves aren't honest (in their private lives) but once there's money on the line, all honesty and nicety is out of the window immediately Begging, intense heckling, not taking no for an answer, rudely pushing upsells, sowing FOD to make an extra buck...

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#149

Post by viraptor »

tialaramex wrote: post #103
arthurfm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. I can see why the Tunisian hotel did what they did, but you are correct that their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the holidaymakers. Meanwhile, Thomas Cook holidaymakers were anxious that they might be evicted from their hotels or charged again for their holidays. Holiday companies do not normally…

> The Guardian article mentions that hotels have to wait up to 3 months to be paid by the holiday company. Ninety day terms are very common in most B2B industries. Large companies quickly learn that their suppliers are dependant on them to stay in business and can be abused almost at will. So nominally "90 day" terms claiming you have 90 days to pay become "We definitely won't pay until 90 days after you bill us" and…

Reminds me of a story from HP. They did that as a default way of paying invoices to every business at one of their sites. They thought that everyone will be cool with that. Instead they ended up with one of the managers having to pay the energy bill on a credit card so they get the building reconnected ASAP. Turns out it's all about who can enforce the terms.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#150

Post by tomatocracy »

nabla9 wrote: post #18
wp381640 wrote: post #16

Reminder again to never hold gift cards. I had a family member who was gited a $3,000 travel voucher with an agency - I told them to exchange it in for flights asap as you can book up to a year out, change the tickets later and it's better to be a creditor with a national airline than a likely-going-out-of-business-because-of-online travel agency

Additionally, buy flights using credit card. If you used a credit card, you get your money back in the case of bankruptcy. If you used cash you may not unless you bought bankruptcy insurance.

What’s more, many credit cards provide at least limited travel insurance which may cover the cost of alternative flights and accommodation.
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