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America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

bloomberg.com

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Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#141

Post by mirimir »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #103
shadowprofile77 wrote: post #76

Presumably I'll get downvoted for this but here it goes.. I know that news sites like to link anything they can to climate change in the global human-caused sense because it might create more clicks but how is this a "climate exodus" in that sense? It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely ba…

It's being linked to climate change because small, low-lying islands are seeing serious losses of land mass. From the article: Fifteen years after Hurricane Katrina, Louisiana is trying to relocate the Native American settlement of about 100 people on the Isle de Jean Charles, a narrow island that lost 98% of its land over the past six decades to climate change. My best understanding is that this is, in fact, a new p…

> But much of Florida is not far above sea level and some of the issues they are seeing can legitimately be linked to climate change.

Yes. And also on very porous limestone and coral. So ocean and groundwater levels are linked. Seawalls won't help, and even building on stilts, the groundwater goes saline.

There was a recent article about finding a decades old car and skeleton in a pond in a Florida gated community. Zooming out on Google maps, you can see how they transformed huge areas of ~swamp. They used the classic islet and pond approach. But I bet that all those ponds are tied to sea level.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#142

Post by zaroth »

dghughes wrote: post #29
ForHackernews wrote: post #3

Where are the insurance companies on all this? Shouldn't it become increasingly more expensive to insure a low-lying property? Are they not including climate risks in their modelling?

A few weeks ago a 60 minutes segment compared flooding in The Netherlands vs the USA. In The Netherlands if an area floods homes are not built there and measures are taken to control the water in those areas. In the US people get insurance and build in the same place using the same style. New Jersey hired a man from The Netherlands to tell them how to break out of that process. This was due to the Sandy Hurricane tha…

Building codes have changed dramatically for hurricane prone and flood prone properties in the US. Homes are built on stilts/pillars and with roofs designed to withstand Cat5 winds. It’s night and day to how they were built even 20-30 years ago.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#143

Post by jellicle »

mrfusion wrote: post #133

Disclaimer. I have unwavering faith in climate change. But I do wonder why are banks writing mortgages on houses in these kind of areas? Shouldn’t they be more worried about losing their investment over 30 years?

As long as you've got a reasonable downpayment (or paid for some sort of default insurance), or you at least paid on the mortgage for a few years, the bank has little chance of losing their money. It's YOUR money at risk, not theirs.

If you default and your property value has dropped 20% due to rising seas - but you had a 20% downpayment - the bank will end up whole, only you will be wiped out.

In a well-constructed mortgage, the bank has essentially zero risk of loss.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#144

Post by qqqwerty »

mmaunder wrote: post #125
qqqwerty wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am completely fine with it. We need to convince low information voters that climate change is a serious issue, and the opposition likes to point at snow storms and bring snowballs to congress as proof that climate change is a hoax.

Lie because the other side is lying. The bigger bolder lie wins. The truth is considered weak medicine. This is how we got here. It's a disaster.

Reminding folks that climate change will result in more frequent and extreme weather events after/during extreme weather events is not lying. If folks mis-interpret that to mean that the weather event in question was due to climate change, then that is their own fault.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#145

Post by paul_f »

Waterluvian wrote: post #97
shadowprofile77 wrote: post #76

Presumably I'll get downvoted for this but here it goes.. I know that news sites like to link anything they can to climate change in the global human-caused sense because it might create more clicks but how is this a "climate exodus" in that sense? It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely ba…

I visited South Carolina for a wedding and we had a house on the ocean. Every house was on stilts. I asked locals and they said that it was so the houses survived storm season. One also said that they still get obliterated every 20 years or so but you just budget that in. 20 year rebuilds turning into 1 year rebuilds is what I think first world "climate exodus" looks like. Yes, they know the location is pretty bad. B…

Homes on stilts are designed to survive major storm. Cat 1 and 2 hurricanes. What is a 1 year rebuild? Are you saying a major hurricane will make landfall everywhere, every year? Because that's what you are implying.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#146

Post by CydeWeys »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #76

Presumably I'll get downvoted for this but here it goes.. I know that news sites like to link anything they can to climate change in the global human-caused sense because it might create more clicks but how is this a "climate exodus" in that sense? It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely ba…

The obvious connection to the climate crisis is that global warming is causing ice to melt and thus sea levels to rise. Rising seas are catastrophic for buildings and infrastructure in low-lying coastal areas, which because of its geography Florida has more of than anywhere else in the US.

The world is on the way to becoming uninhabitable for modern human civilization, and we're the cause. It happens that the majority of humanity lives in coastal areas that will be put underwater by the amount of sea level rise that's going to happen by the end of this century at current rates of warming. The current retreats from the most vulnerable areas in Florida are just a tiny, tiny taste to come of the massive climate refugeeism that is on the horizon.

It's not hysteria, this is what is going to happen unless we make massive changes.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#147

Post by paul_f »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #53
ryansmccoy wrote: post #39

Why do people buy beach front houses when they know they'll be under water in just a few years? Doesn't make sense to me.

Barrack Obama just bought a multi-million dollar beachfront home. If any major public figure has the most accurate info about pending sea level rise, even classified level information that might not be released to the public, surely it's him.

This is an interesting fact related to the discussion, yet downvoted. Weird.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#149

Post by kaikai »

selectodude wrote: post #129
DoreenMichele wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that falls under personal preference. I was born and raised in Georgia. I'm abundantly familiar with what goes on there, weather-wise. Near daily thunderstorms in the summer. Electrical storms that can kill electronics, appliances or even people. If it snows at all, businesses shut down, schools shut down, car wrecks go up, etc. If it gets too cold, they sometimes shut down schools and businesses. When I was…

Sounds like Chicago is about as close to safe as it gets anywhere on earth.

As long as the power grid stays live. I’d hate to live that far north without a wood stove for backup.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#150

Post by Dylan16807 »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #83
toomuchtodo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The woman profiled in this Bloomberg piece is 60, likely is not wealthy (her insurance settlement is a bit more than half of what remains on her mortgage, and she cannot afford to bring her house up to code due to the extent of the damages), and could possibly be homeless without a relo buyout. If it was me, I’d buy a new home in Florida (far above sea level!) with my settlement, and default on the shack she’s stuck…

> Should people know better? Perfect information is hard. Ordinary people aren't the perfect agents we're propagandized them to be. People often are forced to gamble tomorrow to live through today. I've seen people make the gamble and lose badly and others manage to slip out from under it.

You're trying to agree, but I think you're instead stating a different and better point.

For someone to not do basic research into buying an entire house, because they weren't interested? That gets very little sympathy from me.

But if the real problem is that they were forced to gamble to live, then that gets sympathy from me.

And you improve these two situations in very different ways.

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