Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#141

Post by samstave » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

extipion wrote: post #121

samstave wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I have three daughters. I paid fucking attention, So, the one daughter whom had all of her vaccines at once was the only one of the three who had an adverse was one of three... The other two daughters who had shit split up were not adversely affected So literally A/B testing my kids. And to top it off, did you see my comment abt my brother being one of the top doctors in the nation,here is him (and yes I’m going…

So that’s a test with a sample size of 3. You can not conclude anything meaningful from this. Med creeds aside, if you have any research creeds you’d know this isn’t particularly powerful. I have a 2nd cousin that is a fantastic doctor. I also happen to be a doctor, like a bunch of others around here. Not to insult your brother in any way, but I’ve never heard of him until now. Also looking on Scopus, while he may be…

I’ll concede to your points, except you saying that my sample size of three is insignificant because they are the only three I need to worry about personally, and so observing them personally individually react to the size of amount injected, with the additional outcome of getting the actual chicken pox due to the vaccine biases me.

Spread across millions, sure, an outlier family, but truth.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#142

Post by samstave » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:51 PM UTC

braindeath wrote: post #140

samstave wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure dude: adult lactase persistence in ancient skeletons in Northern Europe, Scandinavia, southern France and elsewhere. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/12/27/168144785/an...

What are you trying to say? How does this contradict anything I just said? Lactose intolerance is an issue involving lack of endogenous proteins, not the gut biome. Asians, all humans, except for rare cases can digest lactose in infancy. IBS is a functional gut pain/dysfunction syndrome. Those with lactose intolerance don't get IBS when they eat cheese.

All I said was that it was claimed that the gut biome for lactose/lactase tolerance was predominately developed over thousands of years by norther European/Scandinavian peoples.

In Asia, they were less prone to eating milk/cheese, thus the propensity for lactose intolerance....

For someone who claims to be so smart you sound fucking uninformed and not able to see these things.

However, if I am wrong, I am happy to be properly educated and change my understanding and view.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#143

Post by apotheosis » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

braindeath wrote: post #140

samstave wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure dude: adult lactase persistence in ancient skeletons in Northern Europe, Scandinavia, southern France and elsewhere. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2012/12/27/168144785/an...

What are you trying to say? How does this contradict anything I just said? Lactose intolerance is an issue involving lack of endogenous proteins, not the gut biome. Asians, all humans, except for rare cases can digest lactose in infancy. IBS is a functional gut pain/dysfunction syndrome. Those with lactose intolerance don't get IBS when they eat cheese.

Children create lactase to process milk (lactose) until around puberty, then they stop creating it. I learned in college that studies have shown that a lot of people of Northern European descent continue to create lactase into adulthood, and thus can continue to break down milk and cheeses without issue.

There is still a percentage of non-European population that can consume lactose into adulthood, and not break it down without any external symptoms.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#144

Post by tptacek » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #138

tptacek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again, the question of whether multiple simultaneous vaccinations increases adverse effects is well studied, and the verdict is that they do not. It doesn't seem to me like trying to reason to the contrary axiomatically is going to get you anywhere.

Question, Patrick (yes I still call you that) How many kids do you literally have? Have you taken three different toddlers to get vaccines and observed how miserable they feel over the next week? No? Well I have and I don’t give a shut abt those fucking “studies” because I have three humans I have raised and watched how their persons react to many inoculations at one time, Fuck those “studies” And recall my brother i…

I don't understand the "Patrick" thing. My confirmation name is Peter? That's the closest any of my names come to that. The 'P' in my last name is silent.

I have 2 kids.

I really don't care what your brother thinks? Sorry.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#145

Post by DanBC » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:04 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #17

This has been known for quite a while, basically passing through the non sterile vaginal canal vs the sterile (or close to it) abdominal wall yields differences. This has lead to some questionable practices such as "vaginal seeding" whereby new moms will swab their vagina and then seed their babies shortly after birth (usually through placing the gauze in babies mouth or around their face). This comes up not infreque…

This article is about new research that says the source of useful gut flora is not the vaginal canal, but is in fact from faecal matter from the mother.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#146

Post by DanBC » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:05 PM UTC

tssva wrote: post #91

giarc wrote: post #17

This has been known for quite a while, basically passing through the non sterile vaginal canal vs the sterile (or close to it) abdominal wall yields differences. This has lead to some questionable practices such as "vaginal seeding" whereby new moms will swab their vagina and then seed their babies shortly after birth (usually through placing the gauze in babies mouth or around their face). This comes up not infreque…

The article addresses this practice and states that the bacteria found in babies born vaginally differs from the bacteria found in the vaginal canal this further calling into question this practice. The bacteria instead seems to come from the mother's gut.

Specifically, it comes from faecal matter that she expels during the birth.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#147

Post by DanBC » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:06 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #142

braindeath wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you trying to say? How does this contradict anything I just said? Lactose intolerance is an issue involving lack of endogenous proteins, not the gut biome. Asians, all humans, except for rare cases can digest lactose in infancy. IBS is a functional gut pain/dysfunction syndrome. Those with lactose intolerance don't get IBS when they eat cheese.

All I said was that it was claimed that the gut biome for lactose/lactase tolerance was predominately developed over thousands of years by norther European/Scandinavian peoples. In Asia, they were less prone to eating milk/cheese, thus the propensity for lactose intolerance.... For someone who claims to be so smart you sound fucking uninformed and not able to see these things. However, if I am wrong, I am happy to be…

Are you alright, Sam?

You seem to be posting a lot of pretty hostile posts to this thread.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#148

Post by DanBC » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:09 PM UTC

donclark wrote: post #2

TL DR: C-section babies pick up more hospital bacteria than those born vaginally, research shows. The findings could explain the higher prevalence of asthma, allergies and other immune conditions in babies born by caesarean. By six to nine months, the differences between the two groups had levelled out. But scientists think that the initial exposure to bacteria at the moment of birth could be a “thermostat” moment fo…

Please don't tldr if you're going to do it this poorly.

The new bit of this story is that the vaginal canal isn't adding anything to the microflora of the baby, and that the source is in fact fecal matter from the mother during birth.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#149

Post by braindeath » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:12 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #142

braindeath wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you trying to say? How does this contradict anything I just said? Lactose intolerance is an issue involving lack of endogenous proteins, not the gut biome. Asians, all humans, except for rare cases can digest lactose in infancy. IBS is a functional gut pain/dysfunction syndrome. Those with lactose intolerance don't get IBS when they eat cheese.

All I said was that it was claimed that the gut biome for lactose/lactase tolerance was predominately developed over thousands of years by norther European/Scandinavian peoples. In Asia, they were less prone to eating milk/cheese, thus the propensity for lactose intolerance.... For someone who claims to be so smart you sound fucking uninformed and not able to see these things. However, if I am wrong, I am happy to be…

Wow, what's your damage, man? When did I ever claim to be "smart"?

Let's say this is my area of expertise. I am informing you that lactose intolerance is due to a deficiency in the enzyme lactase, a typically endogenously (by your bodies' cells) produced enzyme. It is therefore not a component of the gut biome. The proteins in your body can affect the gut microbiome, just as the micro and macro structure of your organs can, but they are not part of the biome.

Lactase is present in all normal human infants, since all healthy human babies are capable of digesting breast milk. Lactase expression starts trailing off in toddler-hood. Some populations apparently developed a mutation that causes lactase to persist. One group are northern European/Scandinavians. But there are also other groups such as certain Africans and Meds/Middle Easterners that have lactase persistence (Mediterranean and Middle Eastern people have a long history of consuming sheep and goat milk). The interesting thing is that there are multiple, independent mutations.

The cause for lactase persistence has a number of hypothesis, such as the consumption hypothesis. But these are speculation.

There is no cure for lactase deficiency. The most common "treatment" is oral enzyme replacement. This is known as Lactaid and Lactrase. Lactrase seems to work better for symptoms in most people, but response is variable.

Re: Caesarean babies have different gut bacteria, microbiome study finds

#150

Post by braindeath » Thu, Sep 19, 2019, 8:20 PM UTC

apotheosis wrote: post #143

braindeath wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you trying to say? How does this contradict anything I just said? Lactose intolerance is an issue involving lack of endogenous proteins, not the gut biome. Asians, all humans, except for rare cases can digest lactose in infancy. IBS is a functional gut pain/dysfunction syndrome. Those with lactose intolerance don't get IBS when they eat cheese.

Children create lactase to process milk (lactose) until around puberty, then they stop creating it. I learned in college that studies have shown that a lot of people of Northern European descent continue to create lactase into adulthood, and thus can continue to break down milk and cheeses without issue. There is still a percentage of non-European population that can consume lactose into adulthood, and not break it d…

There are plenty of non-Europeans that can digest lactose. Think middle-easterners and Mediterraneans and their consumption of sheep and goat milk. Central and East africans too. The trait has incomplete (variable) penetrance.

Lactose tolerance is estimated at 30-45 percent.. So it's a substantial non-European population. The intolerance is heavily skewed toward East and South Asia -- though a lot of South Asians consume milk and paneer.