United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden • Hacker News Board

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#141

Post by mzs » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

mcpherrinm wrote: post #12

sarcasmatwork wrote: post #2

This seems like targeted harassment. Are those NDA's even valid anymore?

Having known other people who have worked for the NSA, they've had to clear any publications with them before publishing (eg, academic papers in a field related to their work, resumes describing work done at the NSA, etc). My understanding is they're enforcable for the rest of your life. I'd expect to see this if anybody published a book without clearance. It's only newsworthy because it's Snowden.

Indeed there is currently a very similar situation with another author: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/a-look-inside-the-cia...

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#142

Post by onetimemanytime » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

jaboutboul wrote: post #89

advisedwang wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was published by Macmillan, which has US offices and subsidiaries. They do fall under US jurisdiction and will likely comply with US courts.

If they don't it will be quite interesting, but in reading the book, I don't think his motivations were financial. Dude is holed up in middle of nowhere totally uncertain of his future and wants to make sure this chapter, his chapter, of history is preserved from his POV.

He could have released it as a free pdf. In fact, he can still do this (unless his publisher own it now.)

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#143

Post by okmokmz » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #77

behringer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read the book... nobody was put in danger. Snowden is an American hero.

You should talk to an actual intelligence officer or two. I have, which is where I got that impression from.

That's like someone being stalked by a police officer being told to call the police

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#144

Post by okmokmz » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #46

zer0faith wrote: post #17

Sadly, they will attempt to make an example out of Snowden to discourage anyone from EVER doing something like this again.

The thing people seem unable to do with Snowden is separate the intention of his actions with the impact. I have no doubt he had the right intentions. Informing the people of the gross violations of civil liberties is a noble endeavor. However, the impact that it had and the manner in which he conducted it, and the channels he went through to do so had a dramatically negative impact on sources and methods. Real peopl…

The "appropriate people in charge" were well aware of these programs

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#145

Post by henryfjordan » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #105

larkeith wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already a separate criminal suit; this one is just trying to prevent him from profiting from his book, due to it (allegedly) containing intelligence info and violating his NDA. From the link: "This lawsuit is separate from the criminal charges brought against Snowden for his alleged disclosures of classified information. This lawsuit is a civil action, and based solely on Snowden’s failure to comply with the…

If I buy the book, does that make me a criminal accessory? Or guilty of the receipt of stolen property (information)?

No. Classified Info laws only apply to people who are authorized to have that info in the first place. This is why the US went after Snowden but not the journalists he worked with, as they broke no laws.

You also do not have an NDA with the government (I assume) and so owe them nothing but taxes.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#146

Post by okmokmz » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

Simulacra wrote: post #56

He's broken the law in more than one ways. Regardless of his motives, he broke the law. We can't expect to hold Trump or anyone else accountable if we cannot hold responsible those who are entrusted to protect confidential information.

Yes, lets all blindly follow the will of the government without thinking for ourselves and in that way the government will be held accountable... oh wait. Can you name any major movements that created change without breaking a single law?

Rosa parks not sitting on the back of the bus is a great example

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#147

Post by Rooster61 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #137

Rooster61 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to plug Andrew Yang here, but this is a big part of his platform. He's advocating for a right-to-data bill that would make any and all data collected and transmitted yours. If that goes into place, your data immediately becomes subject to these amendments. It does away with some of the legal grey area that surrounds data.

Curious how this handles data that is not specifically about one person, but is about the relationships between many people? Facebook's social graph, for instance: is the fact that I am friends with someone on Facebook my property, their property, or Facebook's property? Or this conversation we're having on HN: you could argue that we each own our words, but the conversation itself (including contextual replies, quot…

I haven't seen what would actually be in the bill, and I am curious as well. Hence one of the reasons I prefaced by saying I'm not plugging him :)

Questions like these also partly explain why legislators are so reluctant to create law for such things.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#148

Post by vincent-toups » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

pdkl95 wrote: post #109

omarhaneef wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the same issue with the other debate raging on HN: Stallman and Free Speech. The issue is that people -- not sure whether it was OP, or you -- conflate what is moral with what is legal. One person starts off with a moral premise: people should have free speech, or people should have the right to say what the government is doing. Someone else responds with what is legal : the law applies to government curtailmen…

> conflate what is moral with what is legal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem

I don't think this is the "is ought" problem. Most people recognize the existence of ought, and ought is explicitly recognized as a pre-condition for legal authority.

That is to say that we all expect, whether it is justified or not from a philosophical perspective, that ought both exists and that it should be related to legality.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#149

Post by jjtheblunt » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

HashThis wrote: post #21

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

Where is the right to privacy, in the US constitution, spelled out?

[ asking because i don't know ]

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#150

Post by mCOLlSVIxp6c » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #41

For those wondering, the purpose here (part of a multi-pronged approach) is to restrict his income and seize his assets. The less money someone has access to, the less power they have. This makes it harder for him to live day-to-day, restricts his access to experts who won't work pro-bono, and ultimately will hurt his criminal defense should he ever return to the USA. These guys don't fool around. Expect more pressur…

I strongly agree. Since Snowden himself is presumably in Russia, the U.S. government is effectively attempting economic sanctions against him. Their method is to scare anyone that might send him money with a lawsuit.